[Bob Tanner]

My favourite motor sports writer, Monte Dutton, is at it again. His article today, in the Gaston Gazette, explains NA$CAR's new and improved Playoff quite well. He underlines that the race fans don't especially care about parity, but NA$CAR sure does.

GastonGazette.com - The Website of The Gaston Gazette

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

My favourite motor sports writer, Monte Dutton, is at it again. His article today, in the Gaston Gazette, explains NA$CAR's new and improved Playoff quite well. He underlines that the race fans don't especially care about parity, but NA$CAR sure does.

GastonGazette.com - The Website of The Gaston Gazette

Good read. I can see why he is your favourite motor sports writer.

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

He underlines that the race fans don't especially care about parity, but NA$CAR sure does.

Yeah, right on! We need more of those old time races from the good ole days. When racin was racin and only a few cars were capable of winning and the winner won a race by 2 or more laps over second place. We need more of those good ole days!

If ya don't believe me check out this site of stats. See how many cars finished in the lead lap and the margin of victory in the ole time racing compared to the latter. Nextel Cup Page - Racing-Reference.info, You can plainly see that the races are very much closer today than ever. So, I say...what's so great about "ole time racing" that some of you allude to as being a greatest era. Like I've said before, NASCAR racing is better now than it's ever been. My downfall, I don't care if I sound don't "cool" or an "expert" or whatever. I've been a fan since 1950, but I'm in no way an expert, just a plain ole country boy who likes to think I can call it like it is without trying to impress anyone. I do think that those who say they're ole time fans are full of bulla who have a big ego and try to make themselve sound important, except a few posters (I believe Bob is a true ole time fan).

[Fuddpucker]

It sure nice to see a newspaper guy that is totally honest. The best reading I've seen in years, and I'm pretty old.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Monte just took a little less than a year of this forum's posts and squashed them into one column, and in a way that made perfect sense. If a NA$CAR exec were to see that, he would probably think long and hard about what he had gotten himself into.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Yelk

Yeah, right on! We need more of those old time races from the good ole days. When racin was racin and only a few cars were capable of winning and the winner won a race by 2 or more laps over second place. We need more of those good ole days!

If ya don't believe me check out this site of stats. See how many cars finished in the lead lap and the margin of victory in the ole time racing compared to the latter. Nextel Cup Page - Racing-Reference.info, You can plainly see that the races are very much closer today than ever. So, I say...what's so great about "ole time racing" that some of you allude to as being a greatest era. Like I've said before, NASCAR racing is better now than it's ever been. My downfall, I don't care if I sound don't "cool" or an "expert" or whatever. I've been a fan since 1950, but I'm in no way an expert, just a plain ole country boy who likes to think I can call it like it is without trying to impress anyone. I do think that those who say they're ole time fans are full of bulla who have a big ego and try to make themselve sound important, except a few posters (I believe Bob is a true ole time fan).

Thank you, Yelk. I will take that last statement as a compliment. You are one of only a handful of fans I have met who can honestly claim that they've followed NASCAR since the 50's. So, when you make a statement such as that, I don't take it lightly.

My feelings on the "good ole days" is that, in many ways they weren't so damn good. Safety usually meant a lap belt and some pipe crudely welded to the frame thru holes in the floorboard. Period. Plus, the fans weren't safe either. Many a car tore the center out of the wheel and the tire assembly went flying over the fence into the stands. Race amenities usually meant 25 cent hot dogs and 50 cent beer (when you were making less than $60 a week, that was considered expensive). Taking a toilet break usually meant going to a dark corner of the pits or, if you were in the stands, going to a hot, stinky, block bldg and going either in a tin trough or against the wall. (I still have no idea what indignities the ladies went through. Gentlemen just don't ask those things) The racing was usually dominated by no more than two or three drivers and having more than five drivers finish on the lead lap in a 100-lap race was almost unheard of.

All that being said, one thing I can never remember feeling was that the race was artificial and the finishes were contrived by mysterious debris cautions and the points being "readjusted" sometime during the tracks season in order to make the competition closer.

No, the "good ole days" were sometimes brutal, primitive and by today's standards' less competitive. But they were more like racing, or at least that's the way I, personally, feel.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Yelk

Yeah, right on! We need more of those old time races from the good ole days. When racin was racin and only a few cars were capable of winning and the winner won a race by 2 or more laps over second place. We need more of those good ole days!

If ya don't believe me check out this site of stats. See how many cars finished in the lead lap and the margin of victory in the ole time racing compared to the latter. Nextel Cup Page - Racing-Reference.info, You can plainly see that the races are very much closer today than ever. So, I say...what's so great about "ole time racing" that some of you allude to as being a greatest era. Like I've said before, NASCAR racing is better now than it's ever been. My downfall, I don't care if I sound don't "cool" or an "expert" or whatever. I've been a fan since 1950, but I'm in no way an expert, just a plain ole country boy who likes to think I can call it like it is without trying to impress anyone. I do think that those who say they're ole time fans are full of bulla who have a big ego and try to make themselve sound important, except a few posters (I believe Bob is a true ole time fan).

So just where is the line for an old time fan if I may ask ???

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So just where is the line for an old time fan if I may ask ???

Depends on who you're trying to impress.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Yelk

Depends on who you're trying to impress.

I don't think anyone here tries to impress anyone else. Most that come here come with opinions of what racing is to them. How it affects them, who they cheer for and why. There are posters on this forum that I am impressed with but only because of their clear opinions and knowledge of what they are saying. There are also some that I do not agree with but like myself they have opinions that they believe in. Who is anyone to condem anothers opinion ?

Old time racing has a different meaning to each individual. Some see corporate sponsorship as an evil. Others see the France family as part of the "downfall" of what racing once was. Now some see the introduction of Toyota as another step in the wrong direction. No matter what anyone has to say it is how they feel, thus making it an opinion.

I don't see a specific age as being a requirement to being an old time race fan. Any young fan who has an appreciation of the past and who thinks that those days of the sport were better than the current times could be a fan of the older generation of racing. An example of that would be a young baseball fan who thinks Ted Williams was one of the greatest. That individual could be considered a fan of the older generation of baseball players.

[Lefty Noob]

Well, I'm not the world's biggest NASCAR fan, but this is an issue you're going to run into in every sport. Some people are going to think that the old school way is better, while some people are going to think that today, the here-and-now, are the golden days of the sport. I myself am guilty of being an old-school fan in basketball, but on the other hand, I'm also of the opinion that college football is better now than it once was. I'd be interested in hearing the talking points for both opinions in NASCAR. Why was it better before, or why is it better now?

[wardfan]

Mr. Bob correct me if I'm wrong but the year Alan Kulwilki (I know I didn't spell it right but you know who I mean) won the championship wasn't by something like 7 points? So yea this crap about the closest finish ever with this chase format is bull. Why doesn't NASCAR just make it IROC and get it over with instead of this slow torture and these "tweeks" each year. At least then we could know it's all drivers skill at that point and cheer our favorite driver.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Mr. Bob correct me if I'm wrong but the year Alan Kulwilki (I know I didn't spell it right but you know who I mean) won the championship wasn't by something like 7 points? So yea this crap about the closest finish ever with this chase format is bull. Why doesn't NASCAR just make it IROC and get it over with instead of this slow torture and these "tweeks" each year. At least then we could know it's all drivers skill at that point and cheer our favorite driver.

Kulwicki won it in 1992 by ten points. If memory serves me correctly, he won it by virtue of leading the most laps in the final race, or something like that.

Until last year NA$CAR has claimed that Busch's win in 2004 was the closest (eight points) championship. 2004 was the first year of the Playoffs and it and the eight point spread was the closest. However, that score was "manufactured"by NA$CAR resetting the scores after race 26. So, the validity of the "closest" claim is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

NA$CAR is on a determined plan to (a) make sure EVERY popular driver is in the race for the chase and (b) Make sure that the score is so close that, at the final race at Homestead, the news hacks and the NA$CAR PR weenies can hype the Hell out of the race for advertising and media ratings.

I have no problem with the Playoff, per se. My problem is the reason NA$CAR crammed it down everyone's throat. To me the entire thing just seems...? Artificial?

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Kulwicki won it in 1992 by ten points. If memory serves me correctly, he won it by virtue of leading the most laps in the final race, or something like that.

Until last year NA$CAR has claimed that Busch's win in 2004 was the closest (eight points) championship. 2004 was the first year of the Playoffs and it and the eight point spread was the closest. However, that score was "manufactured"by NA$CAR resetting the scores after race 26. So, the validity of the "closest" claim is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

NA$CAR is on a determined plan to (a) make sure EVERY popular driver is in the race for the chase and (b) Make sure that the score is so close that, at the final race at Homestead, the news hacks and the NA$CAR PR weenies can hype the Hell out of the race for advertising and media ratings.

I have no problem with the Playoff, per se. My problem is the reason NA$CAR crammed it down everyone's throat. To me the entire thing just seems...? Artificial?

NASCAR didn't cram it down everyone's throat. If you'll remember, almost everyone demanded a change in the points system and they got it.
Be careful of what you ask for, because you just might get it.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Yelk

NASCAR didn't cram it down everyone's throat. If you'll remember, almost everyone demanded a change in the points system and they got it.
Be careful of what you ask for, because you just might get it.

True... people screamed for a change.... those idiots are now complaining about it. However I would have to say they crammed it down everyones throats by taking the initiative to properly plan the chase system and take the time to develop it. They just threw something down on paper and thought it would work and everyone would be happy... wrong. Bit'em in the ass when teh whiner(Grodon) and Little E missed the chase. Ouch. That has almost the air of Vince Mcmahons XFL and how disappointing that was.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by Yelk

NASCAR didn't cram it down everyone's throat. If you'll remember, almost everyone demanded a change in the points system and they got it.
Be careful of what you ask for, because you just might get it.

your right some people demanded a change but the change they ask for and the one they got is two different things. the one they got was shoved down there throats!!