[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by clutch

I am left to surmise that you are in fact not in favour of these changes Bob. Would that be correct?

I personally think that they have done a great job of tweeking the Chase.
15 more points for a win is a significant gain. And then the seeding...

I won't speak for Bob but for myself, who is an older generation fan, they have tweeked the sport right out of its initial direction. I tend to keep using the "WWF" example but that is what I see the NA$CAR management as. Stick & ball or horse and pony ... it's still all about a show now and not what it once was in its true glory days.

Just my opinion.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I won't speak for Bob but for myself, who is an older generation fan, they have tweeked the sport right out of its initial direction. I tend to keep using the "WWF" example but that is what I see the NA$CAR management as. Stick & ball or horse and pony ... it's still all about a show now and not what it once was in its true glory days.

Just my opinion.

It isn't just your opinion, There are a lot of people that agree with you 100%.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by clutch

I am left to surmise that you are in fact not in favour of these changes Bob. Would that be correct?

I personally think that they have done a great job of tweeking the Chase.
15 more points for a win is a significant gain. And then the seeding...

Actually, Clutch, that fact that they changed the rules in the Playoff doesn't really bother me. They started with ten, now they have twelve (to ensure the most popular drivers make the chase; no more Jeffie-Pooh, Junior or Stewart will be on the outside looking in). In a couple more years it'll be fifteen or they'll come up with a "Fan's choice" slot.

I'm just not in favor of the Playoff thing, in its entirety. However, they have it and everyone is treated the same (oops! Belay that. The top 35 are treated the same; and within that 35 some are treated more "same" than others. Re: Huxley's Animal Farm) Bottom line is that they race, so it's all moot.

I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment that they need more points for a win. Your 15 seems like a decent number. In fact, the vast majority of those I hear see no real evil in having the driver with the most wins being the champion. It seems as though more and more fans are seeing "consistency" as just another form of boring.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

It seems as though more and more fans are seeing "consistency" as just another form of boring.

Maybe, but with a 5 Million dollar cheque for you at the end of the season it is the smart way race. One would have to have rocks in the head to race anyother way if they seriously wanted to win

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by clutch

Maybe, but with a 5 Million dollar cheque for you at the end of the season it is the smart way race. One would have to have rocks in the head to race anyother way if they seriously wanted to win

Don't mean to but in, but if there in racing for the money I think they need to git out!!! I don't care if it is Jr.,Stewart,or DJ. I love racing and I don't like some of the things NASCAR is doing, but it is still the best racing out there I just think management is going astray.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

Don't mean to but in, but if there in racing for the money I think they need to git out!!! I don't care if it is Jr.,Stewart,or DJ. I love racing and I don't like some of the things NASCAR is doing, but it is steel the best racing out there I just think management is going astray.

These arent personal conversations Troll.. butt in anytime you like

I was recently looking around Jayski and some interesting data had been collected about one form of consistency that no one can argue with.

Those with the lowest accident rate tend to make the Chase........If I were a Team Owner I'd certainly try to emphasise this with my driver

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by clutch

These arent personal conversations Troll.. butt in anytime you like

I was recently looking around Jayski and some interesting data had been collected about one form of consistency that no one can argue with.

Those with the lowest accident rate tend to make the Chase........If I were a Team Owner I'd certainly try to emphasise this with my driver

Thank you clutch. Your right about the accident rate but staying out of trouble means some times backing out and taking a good finish rather push hard and ether win or crash trying. Like Sr. would say 2nd. is just the 1st. looser.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

I just think management is going astray.

That was long ago. Feb 18, 2001 if I remember correctly.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by Quality88

That was long ago. Feb 18, 2001 if I remember correctly.

That would be correct.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by clutch

Those with the lowest accident rate tend to make the Chase........If I were a Team Owner I'd certainly try to emphasise this with my driver

So what you're saying is Jimmy Spencer shouldn't be allowed in a car ????

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So what you're saying is Jimmy Spencer shouldn't be allowed in a car ????

Don't know about clutch. but I would let him drive I like Jimmy Spencer. How couldn't you like some one that fed Kurt Bush some Knuckles.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by clutch

These arent personal conversations Troll.. butt in anytime you like

I was recently looking around Jayski and some interesting data had been collected about one form of consistency that no one can argue with.

Those with the lowest accident rate tend to make the Chase........If I were a Team Owner I'd certainly try to emphasise this with my driver

Well put. That's the reason why David pearson has the best winning percentage in NASCAR history. He always was aware that you would never win a race you didn't finish.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Well put. That's the reason why David pearson has the best winning percentage in NASCAR history. He always was aware that you would never win a race you didn't finish.

For some Mr. Pearson would today be chastised as the dreaded "points racer". A percentage of those same some would move to make Mr. Pearson and his kind obsolete by overloading the value of a win.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

For some Mr. Pearson would today be chastised as the dreaded "points racer". A percentage of those same some would move to make Mr. Pearson and his kind obsolete by overloading the value of a win.

Interesting way to look at it, Wing. I see your point but I look at it from another angle.

Let's take the guy I consider to be the consumate "points racer," Mark Martin. As of today, in Cup Mark has 35 wins in 674 starts. That gives him a 5.2% winning percentage

David, OTOH had 105 wins in only 574 starts, or 18.3%. Based on these numbers, I'd say that Pearson knew the value of a win and went after it. The only difference between David and some others was that he didn't always try to win the race on the first lap.

I'd term David Pearson a "Points Racer" only in the respect that he realized that the winner got the most points.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Interesting way to look at it, Wing. I see your point but I look at it from another angle.

Let's take the guy I consider to be the consumate "points racer," Mark Martin. As of today, in Cup Mark has 35 wins in 674 starts. That gives him a 5.2% winning percentage

David, OTOH had 105 wins in only 574 starts, or 18.3%. Based on these numbers, I'd say that Pearson knew the value of a win and went after it. The only difference between David and some others was that he didn't always try to win the race on the first lap.

I'd term David Pearson a "Points Racer" only in the respect that he realized that the winner got the most points.

Actually it is possible we see it the same yet express it differently. Wow, can that really happen within the bounds of the English language?

Both Pearson and Martin could flat out drive/race. Both knew the reality that is "to win ya gotta be there at the finish". Both did this. One, as it turns out was able to do a bit more "at the end" than the other. Now the "why" of this could be a near never ending discussion.

I see many followers of the sport today confusing "points racing" and "smart racing". I've been fortunate over the years to be involved with the sport in a fashion that helps me understand that the vast, vast, majority (it's flippin' so near 100% ya couldn't squeeze a hair in) of the drivers out there are in each and every race to win. Should it become clear at various points in the race that the win will need to wait for another day, an adjustment to the car, a different point in the race, the driver/racer moves to "best I can muster" yet finish mode. This is "smart racing" yet some move to label it "points racing". It is in the nature of the human driver/racer to want to win. Sometimes team owners clearly intervene, and that is a shame.

Give me racers. Wanting foremost the win but at every instance during the contest trying to best the next person ahead of him/her.