[BringBackWilkesboro]

I was listening to Tony Stewart Live on Sirius earlier in the week, and he brought up a point that made sense to me. Stewart said that he still thinks it should be 10 in the chase and not 12. As he said, that's a quarter of the field. Do we want NASCAR to become like the NBA where half the damn field gets in? Thats what we should be trying to avoid. Now we all know why NASCAR changed the format. In the last two seasons, 2 of NASCAR's poster boys were 11th and 12th at the 26 race cutoff (Stewart 11th in 06, Gordon 12th in 05). Do the math. "whats next" Tony says. "it goes from 10 to 12 now, soon it will be 12 to 15 and down the road it will be 20". And I see the logic behind that. Dale Junior, another of NASCAR's "big 4" was 19th at the cutoff in 05. What If the were to happen Again? I'd hate to think about it. France and Hunter want to make the action on the track better? Add 10 points for a win (which they did) and lower the chase to 5 drivers if your gonna have a chase at all, Then see how hard the guys race.

[Hassan]

Stewart raised an interesting point when he said that too many drivers makes the chase is a waste, but i think that 12 drivers in the chase are just fine as long as they wont increase it more, also adding more points for victories is something we can't argue about how true it is, but decreasing the chase to five will make it less competitive, im sure it will make them race harder or even like their life is all about it, but in the same time we wont see that much competition (remember it's a 43 team's and 5 only to the chase is kinda hard, they already race hard enough).

It's just my opinion

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Hassan

Stewart raised an interesting point when he said that too many drivers makes the chase is a waste, but i think that 12 drivers in the chase are just fine as long as they wont increase it more, also adding more points for victories is something we can't argue about how true it is, but decreasing the chase to five will make it less competitive, im sure it will make them race harder or even like their life is all about it, but in the same time we wont see that much competition (remember it's a 43 team's and 5 only to the chase is kinda hard, they already race hard enough).

It's just my opinion

That is a good point Hassan. But I'm on the other side of the whole competition deal. I'm what you might call a traditionalist. Sure, the old, straight up style points system was getting old, but it wasnt broke (insert cliche here). In many ways, the old system offered great competition throughout the whole season because there was no 26 race cutoff and thus, virtually no "big picture" racing. Back in those days, drivers had to race hard the whole season because there was no 12 driver/400 point playoff to save them if they didnt. The only reason we have a chase today is because Kenseth ran away with the Cup in '03 and so many people complained about it. Remember the '92 season? Nobody would have complained if that sort of thing happened in '03.

[Hassan]

I agree that the chase system made it more comfortable for the top drivers in the standings, the old system made drivers race really hard but drivers who are 9th or 10th needed to race harder and HOPE that top drivers suffer the rest of the season so they can compete to win the title but with the chase system we saw Jimmie Johnson comes from the 9th place to win the title (if it was the old system Jimmie Johnson would won the title with only him and Matt Kenseth lead the points), when they came with the chase system people thoughts after Richmond were "ONE OF THESE 10 (or soon 12) WILL WIN THE TITLE", if it was the old system people will be like "ok it's Matts of Jimmie's year...lets watch football" so you can see the difference, also the old system can rarely be like the 92 season. See last season...5 drivers were able to win the title.

I hope you know my point here

[jags33]

i know a lot of people dont like the new rules but i think its good for the overall. from what i can tell all the rules they add grow nascar, and thats what I want to see. the bigger it gets, the more that comes out of it. that's what I think. i'm not an oldschooler i guess.

[LSC9901]

Jags you make a great point that we have discussed many times. There is a difference in your generation and us old fellas. You may see what NA$CAR is doing as a plus for the sport. The traditionalists want to see that old time racing from race one until the last race. For me that is race 36 not race 26. Once in the top 10 you are guaranteed a top 10 finish. If they had raced until race 36 with all drivers in contention Tony Stewart would have ended I think in 3rd or 4th place (not positive). The way the chase left it was that he could do no better than 11th. About 28% of the former race schedule is now devoted to the chase. For me, a traditionalist, the chase takes away from racing for wins. Now it is all about points.

Run the 36 race schedule and then have your playoffs after with those in the chase. That way the 43rd place driver doesn't get in the way and cause an accident. Think about this. The 10th place chase driver can have 10 DNF's and the 11th place driver could win the last 10 races and do no better than 11th. Seem fair ???

[trollmc08]

I gess im old school to. NO it don't seem fair. I think if a more popular or more out spoking driver had won the championship instead of Matty in 2004 NASCAR would have left the points system alone at least for a little wile.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

I gess im old school to. NO it don't seem fair. I think if a more popular or more out spoking driver had won the championship instead of Matty in 2004 NASCAR would have left the points system alone at least for a little wile.

Matt won it in 2003 the same way alot of champions before him had done it with consistency. He may have had only one win but he had a S%#t load of top 5's and 10's. That's the way it should be. I think the chase would have happened in some way or form anyways.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Matt won it in 2003 the same way alot of champions before him had done it with consistency. He may have had only one win but he had a S%#t load of top 5's and 10's. That's the way it should be. I think the chase would have happened in some way or form anyways.

That brings up another point. The chase is a good way too really get a team frustrated, and not to mention France's precious fans. Say for example Dale Jr. wins 6 races this season, leads the most laps, and has 13 Top 5's. Thats a hell of a season, almost unrealistic for this day and age. Wouldn't you think thats a championship season? Now, 9th in points with 1 win 4 top 5's and barely led a lap until the second half of the season is Kurt Busch. What happens, if because of the chase, a title that would have been Jr's and a very popular one, is stolen by the less popular Busch who would have had no chance for the cup and didnt really deserve it? Dale would be Pi$$ed as would his fans and Mr. France would once again be struggling to find another way to change the format. When you think about it, that scenario is all too real.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

Say for example Dale Jr. wins 6 races this season, leads the most laps, and has 13 Top 5's. Thats a hell of a season, almost unrealistic for this day and age. Wouldn't you think thats a championship season?

Nope. Tend to agree with what Stewart and a good number of the competitors say. The "season" is defined going in. Ya know right from the start what it is, ya know the rewards, consequences, and the potential downsides. If you were only capable of success in a portion of the defined season (and that portion was inadequate by defintion), you lose. If you don't like it, don't enter it. If you do like it (for whatever reason) put together your best plan and effort and go for it. As for "Lady Luck" - oh well, crap happens.

Further agreement with Stewart (Too many drivers makes chase a waste), and to your point/example, not only would #9 position at the end of the "race for the Chase" be able to leapfrog to the championship, so will #12.

Personally, I could/would be happy without the Chase. Interestingly enough though, you could play scenarios under previous points systems that would still have Earnhardt (in your example) not be #1 at the end.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Nope. Tend to agree with what Stewart and a good number of the competitors say. The "season" is defined going in. Ya know right from the start what it is, ya know the rewards, consequences, and the potential downsides.

I agree that NOW we know what the season is at the start. My complaint is that the season used to be a 36 race season with 43 (+) drivers in contention with the possibility of at least breaking into the top 10 until the very last race. Now NA$CAR has seen fit to take away about 28% of the regular season and eliminate 33(+) drivers from any chance at a top 10 finish. If you can't make it into the top 10 after 26 races you are basically banned from entering into the top 10. If they wanted to design some type of playoff season AFTER the regular season, like other sports do, and allow just the ones who earned their way in then fine ... I'm all for it. You just can't teach this old dog new tricks. I know math has changed from my days in school but this just doesn't add up for me.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Matt won it in 2003 the same way alot of champions before him had done it with consistency. He may have had only one win but he had a S%#t load of top 5's and 10's. That's the way it should be. I think the chase would have happened in some way or form anyways.

Thanks for year correction. as for how he won I don't have a problem with it. That is how we do it at our locale track.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I agree that NOW we know what the season is at the start. My complaint is that the season used to be a 36 race season with 43 (+) drivers in contention with the possibility of at least breaking into the top 10 until the very last race. Now NA$CAR has seen fit to take away about 28% of the regular season and eliminate 33(+) drivers from any chance at a top 10 finish. If you can't make it into the top 10 after 26 races you are basically banned from entering into the top 10. If they wanted to design some type of playoff season AFTER the regular season, like other sports do, and allow just the ones who earned their way in then fine ... I'm all for it. You just can't teach this old dog new tricks. I know math has changed from my days in school but this just doesn't add up for me.

Me ether! This was done for TV ratings not older fans. And we all know what TV ratings = MONEY

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

Me ether! This was done for TV ratings not older fans. And we all know what TV ratings = MONEY

I've said just that all along. I'm not against making money and everyone in business should strive to make money. Generally those in business aim their product at the now generation and I guess that is where some of us fall by the wayside. We are just useless has beens who are no longer needed because we aren't the ones spending major money on the product. The new racing teams of today are all about media hype and that is yet another part of racing we do not enjoy. Yes I will continue to watch and complain. Just another reason why I get up in the morning.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I've said just that all along. I'm not against making money and everyone in business should strive to make money. Generally those in business aim their product at the now generation and I guess that is where some of us fall by the wayside. We are just useless has beens who are no longer needed because we aren't the ones spending major money on the product. The new racing teams of today are all about media hype and that is yet another part of racing we do not enjoy. Yes I will continue to watch and complain. Just another reason why I get up in the morning.

I agree, I am not against making money ether. But I don't intend to lay down and go out quietly, and yes I will continue to watch and complain also. not much else I can do. Wait I can still go to my locale track!!!