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10-24-2007, 07:03 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
No need to compose a thesis. A nutshell would be just fine.      |
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10-24-2007, 09:16 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
In a very simplified "nutshell:" RJR infused vast amounts of money into the sport's prize fund. This put more emphasis on winning the Cup and not winning races. Latford's formula for awarding points further exacerbated the problem. I don't know about anyone else but I go to local racing as often as I can because there I'll see drivers racing to win races, not finish the evening with "A good points night. Having a points set up where a driver get enough extra point for a top finish to inspire them to drive to win would be nice. Taking the current points fund and splitting the approx. eight million dollars and spread it around all the points races, giving that extra money to the race winner would make winning more important that the Cup Or, how about this...? Do away with points altogether and make the Cup champion the driver who wins the most money over the length of the season? It works on the PGA. Every week on the PGA tour you have a field of golfers who want to WIN, not just collect points for a championship. Putting more value on the Cup and less on winning is what ruined NASCAR (or maybe just hurt the Hell out of it?)
__________________ Bob I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) |
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10-24-2007, 10:50 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
I always seem to go back to Rusty Wallace whining because he won the most races one year but didn't win the Cup. It's so damn complicated. I guess that's a different discussion. However, I don't remember drivers "nursing" races in pursuit of the Cup as much as they do today. Of course, The Chase has bastardized the sport altogether in my opinion. Thanks for the explanation in a "nutshell". I get it.
__________________ PPS: Goddess of All Things NASCAR |
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10-25-2007, 08:09 AM
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| Re: NASCAR History Bob how about going for the F1/DTM system by percentages in both points and money. 10 - 8 - 6 points system translates into 185 - 148 - 111 points system by keeping the 100 - 80 - 60 percentages. And this percentage system would go for the prize money too. In reverse it would mean: 10 - 9.2 - 8.9 points witch is clearly super ridiculous.
__________________ Equal cars don't provide good racing. Equivalent cars do. Generic cars have created generic races. |
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10-25-2007, 11:10 AM
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| Re: NASCAR History All right. You guys have hit a nerve. I don't like NASCAR’s point system or the Chase. But, I do enjoy competitive racing. I attend the All Start race at Lowe's every year because it is open competition (to drivers with current points only) and is not a long and boring race. The fans enjoy it and the drivers voice their approval too. It's like "Saturday Night" racing at the local short track with qualifying heats and a feature race. If NASCAR wants to continue their success they need to look to where they came from. Make races "open" to all competitors... not just 35 those protected positions. The 35 protected positions lead to “sandbagging”. At the recent Talladega race some real fast cars went home because there were only 8 positions available to non-regulars. What is interesting is that if all competitors had to qualify on speed, Jeff Gordon would have been so slow in his qualifying effort he would have been going home shaking his head. But, we all know he was sandbagging. All of these drivers (from Formula 1, Champ Car, and IRL) that are trying to qualify… just may have qualifying speeds that would make the race if all drivers (from the protected position) had to qualify on speed. I've got a few more opinions on this but will leave it there for now. I'm just going to have another biscuit and wait for your opinion. |
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10-26-2007, 10:37 AM
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10-31-2007, 11:53 AM
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| Re: NASCAR History Why Daytona Beach? The hard packed sand between Daytona Beach and its northern neighbor Ormond Beach was the site of the world-record automobile speed trials. They started in 1902 and picked up speed right up to the '30s. By then the speeds were approaching 300 miles per hour along the firm and smooth inviting sand. In the spring of 1935 Sir Malcolm Campbell was taking his Bluebird rocket car to Daytona Beach in hopes of running at 300 miles per hour for yet another land-speed-record. Bill France Sr. was born in Washington, D.C. and lived there until his early 20s. His father was a teller at Park Savings Bank in Washington, and his son might have followed in his footsteps with the exception that he had a fascination with the automobile and how it performed. As a teenager, Bill Sr. would often skip school and take the family car to a nearby track and run laps until he had enough time to get the car, a Model-T Ford, back home before his father got home. He held several hands-on jobs until he eventually owned his own service station. He made a name for himself and built a customer base by getting up early in the wintry mornings and going out to crank the cars for white collar bureaucrats. In 1934 the Frances loaded up their car and headed for the south with a total of $25. Where they were headed has never been clearly established but some say Tampa and others say Miami Beach. Two days later they arrived in Daytona Beach. Rumors say that they were broke and had to settle there while some say his wife had a sister in nearby New Smyrna Beach and still others say that their car broke down and they had no choice but to settle in and stay there. However years later Bill Jr. stated that his mother did not have a sister living in New Smyrna Beach and that a broken down car would never stop his father from getting where he wanted because he was an experienced mechanic. Along with this and the weather and the smaller hospitable and more affordable area maybe this is the reason behind the Frances staying in Daytona Beach. Campbell never did get his record of 300 mph at Daytona, instead his best he could do was 276.82mph and on March 7, 1935 Campbell announced that he was moving the speed trials to Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah. It was the shifting winds and changing tides that made Campbell realize that he would not reach his goal of 300 mph if he kept working out of Daytona Beach. Campbell did beat the 300mph speed at Bonneville in late 1935. Daytona Beach area officials were determined to bring in speed-related events after Campbell left and this was how Bill France Sr. got his start in race promotions in late 1935. City officials asked championship dirt track racer and local resident Sig Haugdahl to organize and promote an automobile race along a 3.2 mile course which included Highway A1A southbound from Daytona Beach and the same beach that had been used for the land speed record runs. The 78-lap, 250 mile event for street-legal family sedans was sanctioned by the American Automobile Association for cars built in 1935 and 1936. Daytona Beach posted a $5,000.00 purse, with $1,700.00 for the winner. The biggest problem was that people arrived there earlier than the ticket-takers and established their spots on the beach. The turns at each end very virtually impassable, leading to stuck and stalled cars which created scoring disputes and technical protests. Then the race was called after 75 laps with Milt Marion declared the winner. France finished fifth behind Marion, Shaw, Elmore, and Sam Purvis. Ben Shaw and Tommy Elmore both protested the race but their appeals were squashed. That was the first and last race the City of Daytona Beach ever promoted. Well how would you feel if your City lost $22,000.00 from one race promotion? Haugdahl and France had become very good friends and were not about to give up. Together they talked the Daytona Beach Elks Club into helping promote a race over Labor Day weekend of 1937. Despite a paltry $100.00 purse and improved management, promotion, and track conditions the Elks lost money too. They also like the city lost their interest in motor sports promotion. With that Haugdahl decided that he too had enough and he bowed out of the motor sport promoting as well. This left France all to himself to try and get the area interested since he could still see a future for stock car racing, however he was a struggling filling-station operator and didn't have enough cash to cover a purse, advertise and promote the race plus pay the city to set up the course. France was finally able to convince local restaurateur Charlie Reese, rich and well known, to post a $1,000.00 purse and let France recruit drivers and spread the word. Danny Murphy beat France in the 150-miler that generated just enough profit to convince the co-promoter to do it again. They managed another successful stock car promotion on Labor Day weekend of 1938. France beat Lloyd Moody and Pig Ridings in that race and then organized and promoted three more races in March, July, and September of 1939. They did it again in March , July 4, and September of 1940. France fared well in those three races of 1940 finishing fourth in March, first in July, and sixth in September. France was able to promote two races in March and one each in July and August of 1941 prior to the war breaking out. The war brought a stop to motor sport racing and France went to work for the Daytona Boat Works while his wife handled the family filling station. Shortly after the war ended and things started returning to normal, Bill France left the boat works. France was obsessed with the idea that a single, firmly governed sanctioning body was necessary if stock car was to be a success. He was well aware, as a driver and promoter, that the minor-league sanctioning bodies reeked of inconsistency. France wanted an organization that would sanction and promote races, bring uniformity to race procedures plus technical rules. He wanted an association that would oversee a membership benefit and insurance fund, and one that would promise to pay postseason awards, and crown a single national champion using a clearly defined points system. At that time there were several organizations who claimed to sanction national championship races. One was the American Automobile Association (AAA), but they were more concerned with open-wheel, open-cockpit, champ car racing. The A.A.A eventually became known as the USAC/CART league (Indy-car racing). The other groups were the United Stock Car Racing Association, National Auto Racing league, and American Stock Car Racing Association. The Georgia based National Stock Car Racing Association was only interested with-in the state and so they didn't crown a national champion. The Daytona Beach Racing Association only promoted within the city so they made no claim to a national champion either. France was so devoted to creating a racing association that would adhere to the rules mentioned above. With that in 1947 he retired from racing so he could concentrate all his time and attention to organize that body. The first meeting of the National Association for Stock Car Automobile Racing was held on December 12, 1947 at the Streamline Inn Motel in Daytona Beach, Florida. The organization named Bill France Sr. as its first president. William Henry Getty France, aka, Big Bill France, gathered together a group of racing promoters, drivers, and mechanics with the dream of establishing an organization to set a standard set of rules and regulations to help promote stock car racing. Incorporated on February 21, 1948, the organization hired Erwin "Cannonball" Bakerto be the first Commissioner of Racing. The new organization sanctioned its first race on the Daytona Beach road/beach course in February of 1948, several days before it was legally incorporated. More than 14,000 fans watched that first event, a 150-miler that Red Byron won ahead of Teague, Raymond Parks, Buddy Shuman, and Wayne Pritchett. So, now you know "Why Daytona Beach?"
__________________ My anger management group angers me!  "It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others." - Steven Wright “If you have nothing to say, say nothing." - Mark Twain |
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10-31-2007, 11:39 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Geez R.D. Looks like you wrote a novel there. LOL |
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11-01-2007, 01:06 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
But I didn't write this .. just cut and paste from elsewhere.... I thought it was interesting and I know some of our members (and a few visitors) are interested in this kind of stuff. |
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11-02-2007, 01:00 PM
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11-02-2007, 01:07 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
 the title is "OS/2 LAN Server Certification Handbook" from New Riders Publishing. Normally I'd be hawking it, but it's (1) obsolete and most importantly (2) I get no residuals (aka "write for hire")! |
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11-02-2007, 01:14 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Quote:
New Rider Publishing? A Texas group? It sounds like it. |
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11-02-2007, 01:55 PM
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11-02-2007, 02:22 PM
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| Re: NASCAR History Just ran across this article at Motorsport.com . Decided to post it in total, rather than just give you the link. Beach racing gone but not forgotten Racing series HISTORY NASCAR Date 2007-02-17 (Daytona Beach, FL) By Joe Jennings - Motorsport.com Racing on the sand at Daytona Beach ended in 1958, but it has not been forgotten. During Speedweeks each year, old-time racers and supporters flock to the beach with their restored cars and their memories to relive the past. Some 80 old cars appeared on the beach for the Living Legends of Racing parade. The cars and drivers took a leisurely drive on the hard-baked sand to the delight of fans, tourists and friends of the competitors. A number of former racers including Russ Truelove, "Mad" Marion MacDonald, Johnny Allen, Jim Vandiver, Marvin Panch, Junie Donlavey, Jim Bray and others were on hand to reminisce about the good old days. In a bus tour sponsored by NASCAR, the media received an in-depth walk-through on the history of racing in Daytona Beach. The buses drove by the original home of Bill France, his gas station, the hotel where France and others met to form NASCAR, and other notable spots. The caravan also stopped at the Ponce Inlet Lighthouse where several restored cars were on display and old-time drivers had congregated. Buzz McKim, NASCAR's resident historian, led the tour and accompanied by many of the legends, the tour was very informative. NASCAR raced on the beach from 1936 to 1958. From 1936 to 1947, racing took place on a 3.2-mile course that included the picturesque State Highway A1A and the beach itself. In 1948, the course was moved farther south and it was a more rigorous 4.1 miles in length. The turns at each end of the courses were tight and the sand was often quite rugged. Said Allen, 72, "It was hard to see because of the sand and salt that was flying through the air. The closer you were to the water the better off you were. The best thing you could was to be your wheels on the edge of the water (ocean) by just a hair. Most of the time you had to lean your head out the window to see where you were going." Allen also raced in the first Daytona 500, starting last without benefit of practice time, he successfully climbed to an 11th place finish. Truelove, 83, is best remembered as a Mercury driver and he said his cars came off the showroom floor. "It was very exciting to race on the beach," he said. Seagulls were everywhere but they scattered once the races started. The late Tim Flock (another legend) drove convertibles on the beach and he told Truelove the seagulls often dropped their calling cards on the drivers. 1961 Daytona 500 winner Marvin Panch also raced on the beach three times. He observed, "Our biggest problem is that you couldn't see where you were going. We cut holes in our windshields as the sand pitted them quickly." He also indicated the corners were "like a plowed field." While Panch made the successful transition to the 2.5-mile oval, he said a greater concentration level was needed on the banked track as the wind moved the cars around so much. "It was like flying an airplane; you had to keep it smooth," he said. MacDonald worked in a gas station owned by Bill France and as a teenager he raced on the beach twice in the late 1930s. "It was fun in those days," MacDonald, now 88, said. "We weren't racing then; we were just having fun. I raced close to home and we often had to steal gasoline to get home after a race." Everyone involved had a great time talking with the veteran drivers and looking at their restored cars. A year from now, the stories should be even better, which makes one and all look forward to the 2008 reunion. |
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