[thunderfoot]

Send Toyota back to Japan. Real Stock cars dont have green cards.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

Send Toyota back to Japan. Real Stock cars dont have green cards.

Even NASCAR doesn't race "Real Stock Cars". Those days are long gone. Welcome to:

NA$CAR

[thunderfoot]

This is true unfortunatly. I have been involved in NASCAR since the mid 1960's. My father was a driver and car owner back when we got parts from a wrecking yard, and sometimes cars out in the parking lot. A guy could go racing back then for more heart and less money. Those days are long over. I play in a so called "entry level" now and it still cost's more money than my wife will knowingly let me have. (Thats why I have cash customers at my shop) It's easier to hide income from the IRS than her. Sponsor money is hard to find at this level. But we dream, think, scheme and race.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

This is true unfortunatly. I have been involved in NASCAR since the mid 1960's. My father was a driver and car owner back when we got parts from a wrecking yard, and sometimes cars out in the parking lot. A guy could go racing back then for more heart and less money. Those days are long over. I play in a so called "entry level" now and it still cost's more money than my wife will knowingly let me have. (Thats why I have cash customers at my shop) It's easier to hide income from the IRS than her. Sponsor money is hard to find at this level. But we dream, think, scheme and race.

Welcome to our little group, Thunderfoot.

From your post it looks as though you are in what I call, "Real Stock Car Racing." NASCAR started the downhill slide into pseudo-stock cars when Detroit came out with the uni-bodies and safety made it necessary to go to a racing chassis. Then the last nail was driven into the coffin when NASCAR decided that it wanted parity, rather than real stock car racing, and got into the race car [re] design business. Today they have a common template and the infamous NASCARmobile (a.k.a. COT), which I dearly hope goes the way of the Neru jacket, the BetaMax and the Edsel.

Local tracks have basically sold out and now the last vestiges of real "stock car racing" is where you say you are, in the entry-level "hobby stock." Since the old racing equation of "Money buys power and wins," holds true even there, even that series is priced out of range for many auto hobbyists. (I bet that's not exactly news to you, is it? )

By either luck or design you've wandered into a forum where there is a split between those of us who aren't at all happy with the direction NASCAR and racing in general is headed, and those who enjoy this new NA$CAR and think it is all generally just grand. Then there are a few who fall in between and, I think, just wish the rest of us would just get a life! <g>

Welcome to our group. WE may whine, complain, and disagree but we don't bite, I swear. Pull up a chair, grab your favourite drink and Join in.

[thunderfoot]

What an exellent description of the modern day NASCAR. This car of the future needs to get melted down in a waste hole. As does the "family". Nascar should go to a board of directors that is elected. Not handed the job because they are in someones pocket. That just makes a lot of "yes men" in a sport where there should be no bias but left side weight on a chassis. I will have to finish this later. Business needs tending too. I could write one hell of a paper on this subject and have my english proff make me go off in a dozen directions on content. Yes, I have gone back to college after determining the automotive business is a pain in the ass. Of course it took 30 years to come to this conclusion and act upon it. We are not the fastest thinking minds in the world. But damn, do we have fun.

[LSC9901]

Welcome T-foot to our little sanctuary of NASCAR fan-ism. As Bob noted there are old timers (myself and some others) and then there are the "I Love _____________(you fill in the name) fans. We do have lively discussions from all ends of the spectrum and I for one am looking very forward to your opinions. As the days go by, people like Bob and myself have more and more trouble accepting where my best friend Brian France is taking us. Obviously we are well past the point of no return but it is a lot of fun to remember the days gone by and to wish they were still with us. Somehow the newbies put up with us.

[thunderfoot]

Brian is a close friend? I am so sorry. He was sent to the Northwest the first year of the Northwest Tour. Didnt know his a$$ from a hole in the ground. He still dont. I was never impressed by any of them. He has a staff of cronies who tell him what to do. And they all have a little black book of do's and dont's that was regulated by the power that be. By the way, this is my personel opinion. Those that do not like it, to bad. That is what makes this country great.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

By the way, this is my personel opinion. Those that do not like it, to bad. That is what makes this country great.

Speak freely thunder we don't dog anyone for havin an opinion... we might rib you a little. That is whats great about our little hide-away... speak freely but don't bash others.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

Brian is a close friend? I am so sorry.

After you read a few more of my posts you'll understand just how cynical I can be about the France name. I think most everyone here can testify to that. As I post 49 days to go til race day !!!

[thunderfoot]

Life begins every Febuary. I can remember as a little kid going through that tunnel to the greatest show on earth. Now it doesnt seem to be as big. Hell, the world aint even that big no more. But it does get the blood flowing to see and hear that thunder. Now that another good friend has come through the ranks and will be there driving for RYR (3, it makes things more interesting to watch. And some what more personel. I keep saying I will have to get cable t.v. to see more races, but I seem to get more things done at home without it. It keeps the other half happy and me in the shop playing with my toys. If she is not happy, no one is happy. I value my "quality time", so I dont piss her off. I have found a day or two during the week is worth the time needed for the weekend. Of course I never let her know that I have discovered the solution to this equation. The dirty little secrets we have in order to play racer. My racing life got much better after going back to college and taking Sociology 110. The professor and I are very good friends, and the help of knowing the operations of the brain made life at home much easier to digest. Which in turn made life at the track less stressfull. Old dogs can learn new tricks.

[Yelk]

Real stock cars? The last time NASCARs' top division ran real stock cars was in 1949. In 1950, modifications were allowed to be made to the "stock car" and more as the years went by. I'm an old timer (been a racing fan since 1950) as some of ya'll like to call yourselves, and if I hated NASCAR, Brian and everything about it as most seem to do on message boards, I wouldn't follow it anymore. There has always been change in the sport and it will continue.
I knew Big Bill France, and he ruled NASCAR with an iron fist. People hated him then, but when France Jr took over they thought NASCAR was doomed much like people are saying about Brian now. In the 90's people were saying NASCAR has peaked and was going down hill. Funny thing, some are saying the same thing now. Yet with all the negative things being said about NASCAR, tracks are bringing lawsuits against NASCAR for a Cup date (Texas and Kentucky).
Yes, I know it's everyone right to voice their concerns (complaints), and some are sincere but most of it is being done on message boards because people think it makes the sound cool or in the know.

Is there anything that people like about NASCAR and if not, why do people still follow the sport and spend their money on it?

[LSC9901]

Speaking for myself only I will say that opinions are important and valid .... to the individual making them. I don't believe I have ever said that I hate NASCAR or the France family. I have a great distaste for the France family because (in my opinion) they have changed the original course of NASCAR. Is this good or bad ???? That is all a matter of opinion. For me the changes are generally not good. Will it make me hate NASCAR ?? No, not at all. Will it increase my wish that it could return to the days of old ?? By all means YES !!! Will that ever happen ??? I seriously doubt it. NASCAR to the France family is a business. Business's are in business for one reason only and we all know what that is. They will do whatever it takes to extricate the dollar from your wallet. That is only good business sense. I have to believe that most people, whether they are talking about NASCAR or life in general, wish for life to be as it once was in days gone by. I believe that to be human nature.

I have never expressed an opinion to pretend I am in the know or to sound cool. First off there are many people on these forums who know far more than I even though I have been a race fan for well over 30 years. My days of being cool are long gone. I live each day as if it were my last. One just never knows. Personally I understand no one has pointed a finger and your observation is general in nature and your opinion ... which I respect and have always said that on these forums. While you may be correct in your statement about people who make postings on message boards I, personally, have found that the majority of posters here are motivated by their opinions, beliefs and desires about NASCAR.

Will NASCAR ever be totally doomed or gone ??? Once again I doubt that also. Will the face of NASCAR change ??? Well it is happening every day. Once again I feel that they are just making their appeal to those that have the most to offer to what their end need is ..... the dollar. Once again I state that is what bothers many of us who are "long time race fans." We remember when racing was done with more of a stock car versus a templated vehicle with a decal on it that says Chevy, Ford, Toyota and maybe soon to be VW. I want to see them race the same thing I have parked in my driveway (Basically)

Many of us here will continue to complain (state our opinion) and hope that there are others out there that feel the same pain and desires. After all we are mere mortals with hearts and emotions.

Just my opinion.

[Yelk]

No one can extricate money from mine, yours or anyone elses pocket unless we allow it. And that's why I don't understand all this b!tching and moaning (concerns) and yet people turn around and give them their money.
When I come to the point that I don't like something, I walk away from it, much like I have done with the stick and ball sports. I could care less what goes on and I live on tobacco road.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Yelk

No one can extricate money from mine, yours or anyone elses pocket unless we allow it. And that's why I don't understand all this b!tching and moaning (concerns) and yet people turn around and give them their money.

Absolutely correct about extricating the money. I stay home and complain. Far better seat, the beer is much cheaper and the line to the rest room is much shorter. Therefore I feel completely correct and justified in all my other statements (OPINIONS)

[Yelk]

I take it that you don't purchase any collectables (diecast, shirts, caps or other things) associated with NASCAR? If you do, they're excrcating money from you.