[26 miles from Joplin]

Personally I think there is too many cup drivers in busch. Come on let some other drivers have a chance. Its like a NFL player playing college ball on Sat. and pro ball on Sun. Look at the top 10 in points in the busch series almost all regular cup drivers. I think once you get to run cup for a couple years they should have to run a limited schedule in the busch series. The cup guys get all the practice they need anyway.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by 26 miles from Joplin

Personally I think there is too many cup drivers in busch. Come on let some other drivers have a chance. Its like a NFL player playing college ball on Sat. and pro ball on Sun. Look at the top 10 in points in the busch series almost all regular cup drivers. I think once you get to run cup for a couple years they should have to run a limited schedule in the busch series. The cup guys get all the practice they need anyway.

Stand by 26 .... we've opened this can of worms a few times. I'll let the train get going before I jump on.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 26 miles from Joplin

Personally I think there is too many cup drivers in busch. Come on let some other drivers have a chance. Its like a NFL player playing college ball on Sat. and pro ball on Sun. Look at the top 10 in points in the busch series almost all regular cup drivers. I think once you get to run cup for a couple years they should have to run a limited schedule in the busch series. The cup guys get all the practice they need anyway.

The Cup Raiders have openly acknowledged that they use the Cup Lite race as a practice session for the Cup race. The cars are different but they get info on tires and track conditions. In addition, they compete against drivers of lesser experience on the Cup tracks, plus they are competing against teams with a lot smaller budgets. Cup Raiders are about as sporting as hunting squirrels with a flame thrower. Also they take home a whole lot of money that smaller-budgeted BGN teams could really use. Let's not even consider the number of sponsors they steal.

Some possible solutions:

(a) Charge the Cup Raider Cup teams with a practice session when that Cup driver tries to qualify for a Cup Lite race
(b) Let only the Cup drivers out of the top 35 in points to enter a BGN race.
(c) Guarantee 43 spots to BGN teams. Then let as many Cup Raiders as desire qualify. All Cup Raiders who qualify faster than the 43rd fastest BGN regular can start the race at the end of the BGN field, fastest starting in 44th spot. A 65-car starting field at Bristol should then cause the first on-track gridlock in NASCAR history and finally it may show that Cup Raiders in a BGN race is just plain W-R-O-N-G.
(d) Allow only three Cup Raider in the top 35 in Cup points per BGN race, with a limit of three starts per season per driver.
(e) Let any and all Cup Raidr s race in BGN BUT hey get no BGN points and very Cup drivers gets a flat prize of $4500, ONLY.
(f) Just say NO CUP DRIVERS, PERIOD.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

The Cup Raiders have openly acknowledged that they use the Cup Lite race as a practice session for the Cup race. The cars are different but they get info on tires and track conditions. In addition, they compete against drivers of lesser experience on the Cup tracks, plus they are competing against teams with a lot smaller budgets. Cup Raiders are about as sporting as hunting squirrels with a flame thrower. Also they take home a whole lot of money that smaller-budgeted BGN teams could really use. Let's not even consider the number of sponsors they steal.

Some possible solutions:

(a) Charge the Cup Raider Cup teams with a practice session when that Cup driver tries to qualify for a Cup Lite race
(b) Let only the Cup drivers out of the top 35 in points to enter a BGN race.
(c) Guarantee 43 spots to BGN teams. Then let as many Cup Raiders as desire qualify. All Cup Raiders who qualify faster than the 43rd fastest BGN regular can start the race at the end of the BGN field, fastest starting in 44th spot. A 65-car starting field at Bristol should then cause the first on-track gridlock in NASCAR history and finally it may show that Cup Raiders in a BGN race is just plain W-R-O-N-G.
(d) Allow only three Cup Raider in the top 35 in Cup points per BGN race, with a limit of three starts per season per driver.
(e) Let any and all Cup Raidr s race in BGN BUT hey get no BGN points and very Cup drivers gets a flat prize of $4500, ONLY.
(f) Just say NO CUP DRIVERS, PERIOD.

I'd like to go on the record as saying that "F" is the only real solution !!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'd like to go on the record as saying that "F" is the only real solution !!

"(a) Charge the Cup Raider Cup teams with a practice session when that Cup driver tries to qualify for a Cup Lite race
(b) Let only the Cup drivers out of the top 35 in points to enter a BGN race.
(c) Guarantee 43 spots to BGN teams. Then let as many Cup Raiders as desire qualify. All Cup Raiders who qualify faster than the 43rd fastest BGN regular can start the race at the end of the BGN field, fastest starting in 44th spot. A 65-car starting field at Bristol should then cause the first on-track gridlock in NASCAR history and finally it may show that Cup Raiders in a BGN race is just plain W-R-O-N-G.
(d) Allow only three Cup Raider in the top 35 in Cup points per BGN race, with a limit of three starts per season per driver.
(e) Let any and all Cup Raidr s race in BGN BUT hey get no BGN points and very Cup drivers gets a flat prize of $4500, ONLY.
(f) Just say NO CUP DRIVERS, PERIOD. "

I could actually live with any of them, though (f) would be my first choice.

I find it always preferable to offer people a choice; it promotes thought and tends to be more satisfying in the end.

[Mike24]

Cup drivers should be restricted from racing in the Busch Series. Busch series drivers should have a chance at winning races and championships.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Cup drivers should be restricted from racing in the Busch Series. Busch series drivers should have a chance at winning races and championships.

Another fan on board with us on this issue!

You know, Mike, I always find it odd that when the media hacks asks a BGN driver about the Cup Raiders, they get a response like: "I like them to race with us. We learn so much from them and when we do beat them it makes it all the sweeter."

The interviews which get this type of response are almost always from a driver/team which is in the top 10 or so in BGN points and thus gets an automatic pass each week on having to qualify to make the race, or from a driver/team with a Cup team affiliation.

The BGN driver/teams who pack up each week and go home because some Cup Raider out qualified them sure learn a lot. They learn they should go back to ARCA, ASA, or run late models at their local track and quit wasting their time in NASCAR!

Somehow the media never gets around to interviewing this last group.

[pucknut68]

I personally enjoy watching the cup drivers in the Busch Races. But I really think they should put more restrictions. I do not think it as to be drastic either. Something as simple as restricting the number of races a cup regualer should be allowed to race in.
For Ex.
1) Chase drivers of previous season get only 5 busch races and get last picks of which races.
2) Cup Regulars that were 11-35 in point standings get 15 races and get 2nd pick of which races.
3) Cup Regulars that are outstide of the top 35 in points get 20 races and get 1st pick of which races.

This should assure a Busch regular to be champion in the Busch series. I'm sure this would need to be fine tuned as I do not no the complete ins and outs of Nascar rule book. But its an idea.

Contrats to Jimmie Johnson!
Peace

[Quality88]

I got an idea. Let the cup boys play in the Busch series.... without the name brand equipment. They have to race with a new team/under funded team. Let them run those races with inferior equipment and let's see how long they wish to dance in the Junior prom without a tuxedo.

[LSC9901]

One of the general feelings is that the cup drivers use this as a practice. I know we have mentioned this before with some responses but I still feel that they should just be given more and maybe even unlimited practices. I know it gets into finances and by running in the race they get the practice session and a chance to win back some of the bucks.

My biggest complaint is that there are always some inexperienced drivers that spend a ton of bucks to get to the show but end up pushing the car back onto the trailer because the cup boys and their overfunded teams take up far to many starting positions.

I realize there are many viewpoints on the issue such as revenue for the track when the big boys race, sponsorship exposure by the big boys and so on. I just hate it when a Busch guy comes to the cup for an occassional race and a "veteran cup driver" complains because this inexperienced driver is in the way and causing accidents.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

One of the general feelings is that the cup drivers use this as a practice. I know we have mentioned this before with some responses but I still feel that they should just be given more and maybe even unlimited practices. I know it gets into finances and by running in the race they get the practice session and a chance to win back some of the bucks.

My biggest complaint is that there are always some inexperienced drivers that spend a ton of bucks to get to the show but end up pushing the car back onto the trailer because the cup boys and their overfunded teams take up far to many starting positions.

I realize there are many viewpoints on the issue such as revenue for the track when the big boys race, sponsorship exposure by the big boys and so on. I just hate it when a Busch guy comes to the cup for an occassional race and a "veteran cup driver" complains because this inexperienced driver is in the way and causing accidents.

Very Valid Point LSC.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

I like your point 26 about pro NFL players in college games. Busch is supposed to be a place for young drivers who cant quite cut it in cup to get seat time they need, but with the cup drivers stealing the show, they have no accurate way to measure their skills. And Bob, I like letters A, B and F. In this day and age, Its likely that money has become part of the reason for this. Anyway, Paul Menard is the Busch Series champion in my nostalgic eyes. Why should a Cup driver be able win the Busch title over the Busch regulars?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

]I realize there are many viewpoints on the issue such as revenue for the track when the big boys race, sponsorship exposure by the big boys and so on. I just hate it when a Busch guy comes to the cup for an occassional race and a "veteran cup driver" complains because this inexperienced driver is in the way and causing accidents.

On this same vein, I find it extremely irritating when a Cup Raider goes to one of the lower series', gets caught up in some wreck and then complains about the need for the driver in the lower series to "Get some experience be fore they race us!"

I saw an example of this last Friday night in the CTS race when Joe Nemechek went spinning and he whined long and loud in the post-wreck interview about the quality of CTS drivers. I used to have a lot of respect for Joe but that single interview displayed to me the total self-importance and arrogance of the Cup Raiders who decend into the lower ranks.

[pucknut68]

I'd rather see some cup drivers in Busch Series, I think it helps the Busch drivers. I also think having someone like David Gilliland who had limited Busch experience driving a Cup car full time against seasoned Cup veterans like Stewart, Jarret, Gordon, Jr. is riduculous. So it goes both ways.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by pucknut68

I'd rather see some cup drivers in Busch Series, I think it helps the Busch drivers. I also think having someone like David Gilliland who had limited Busch experience driving a Cup car full time against seasoned Cup veterans like Stewart, Jarret, Gordon, Jr. is riduculous. So it goes both ways.

I think a lot of us can agree with your post. The question is where is the line drawn ? Will you allow 2-3 4-5-10-15 drivers into the Busch series ??? How much "experience" is required to drive in the Cup series ? I can name several current and past "Veteran Cup" drivers that I would question as to whether they really belong in the Cup series.