[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Curves24

Ok, since I am no where as knowledgeable as you few, has any other car/team that got caught cheating had to put the car in the trailer and use their backup or not race?

As to your question, Curves, a definate YES. As a matter of fact a couple years ago Gibbs presented a #20 tor initial inspection that literally left NASCAR speechless. The top of the car had been aerodynamically engineered so radically that NASCAR seized the car and kept it for the best part of the season, as I recall. I seem to recall that when they did give the car back to Gibbs, the car was literally in pieces.

IRT the "Driver of the Year" concept, it is all purely subjective and is totally in one's own mind. My personal reason for mentioning Stewart (I have no favourite driver; I'm a race fan much, much more than a driver fan so I have no dog in this hunt) was the sole fact that his Playoff finishes show one of the many falicies in NA$CAR's current Playoff system. ANY driver who can put any small degree of eggon NA$CAR's collective faces rates some type of award in my book.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

As to your question, Curves, a definate YES. As a matter of fact a couple years ago Gibbs presented a #20 tor initial inspection that literally left NASCAR speechless. The top of the car had been aerodynamically engineered so radically that NASCAR seized the car and kept it for the best part of the season, as I recall. I seem to recall that when they did give the car back to Gibbs, the car was literally in pieces.

I remember that. The X-measurement was off according to nascar. ibbs said they did not know what happened that that car had been come out of the same line as the others. Or something to that affect.

[vinceadams9]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Ricky Bobby

No one, absolutely no one did anything near what this driver did during 2006. And it was all caught on film as evidence. Some of it was even on TV. And as many seem inclined to believe, if it's on TV, it must be true. Please don't burst their bubble.

Shake and bake, that just happened.

[vinceadams9]

Don't forget Kasey Kahne with his leading in the win department. And Denny Hamlin 2 wins in rookie season i think the last one to do that was #20.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

I remember that. The X-measurement was off according to nascar. ibbs said they did not know what happened that that car had been come out of the same line as the others. Or something to that affect.

I was going strictly from memory, Q88. I now remember that it was the rear window, but whatever it was, I remember NASCAR had the proverbial cow! I also remember that NASCAR did indeed give the car back in pieces but, for some reason, it sticks in my mind that they kept the engine? You remember anything about that?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by vinceadams9

Don't forget Kasey Kahne with his leading in the win department. And Denny Hamlin 2 wins in rookie season i think the last one to do that was #20.

Denny Hamlin is another one that deserves it. I mean, who expected him to contend for the championship at Homestead?

[wingkey1]

The thread starting question includes –

“a driver who has impacted the sport in a positive way”

AND

“driver of the year”

Feels to allow for two answers. Sooo ----


“a driver who has impacted the sport in a positive way”

“Influential” might be seen within this. Taking that latitude -

Begs the question – most influential over who or what?

“Most” tends to suggest broadly internal as well as broadly external.

Internal – NASCAR related or focused - fans, drivers, media, track owners, officials, sponsors, manufacturers, team owners, etc.

External – general media, person on the street / public at large, other professional sports, etc.

Feels less to do with most wins, best driver, comeback driver, latest champion, active driver with most championships, etc.

Were one to take the question – When you think of stock car racing today, what name comes to mind? – asked widely internally and externally – what might we expect to hear? If one name were to dominate – that’s influence.

Based on the above, it appears to have been, and continue to be, Junior.

“driver of the year” – NASCAR

Tony Stewart

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

The thread starting question includes –

“a driver who has impacted the sport in a positive way”

AND

“driver of the year”

Feels to allow for two answers. Sooo ----


“a driver who has impacted the sport in a positive way”

“Influential” might be seen within this. Taking that latitude -

Begs the question – most influential over who or what?

“Most” tends to suggest broadly internal as well as broadly external.

Internal – NASCAR related or focused - fans, drivers, media, track owners, officials, sponsors, manufacturers, team owners, etc.

External – general media, person on the street / public at large, other professional sports, etc.

Feels less to do with most wins, best driver, comeback driver, latest champion, active driver with most championships, etc.

Were one to take the question – When you think of stock car racing today, what name comes to mind? – asked widely internally and externally – what might we expect to hear? If one name were to dominate – that’s influence.

Based on the above, it appears to have been, and continue to be, Junior.

“driver of the year” – NASCAR

Tony Stewart

An absolute GREAT answer, IMNSVHO, Wing! Outstanding analytical thinking. I totally disagree with the Junior part, but damn! I really like and respect your reasoning.

IRT Tony: I suggested him strictly in a satirical vein, but the kid does have a lot of wins. Good cases could also be made for Junior, who has improved on last year by 13 places, I believe. Jeff Burton and Kahne have both improved by something like twelve and Harvick has improved by something like ten spots. These last three rate an consideration.
How about Dave Blaney, a driver who has had some good runs with a team (BDR) which has absolutely no manufacturer backing, and was embroiled in a lawsuit for most of the season with Daimler/Dodge?
Or, how about Robby Gordon, who has maintained a top 35 position (as high as 25th at one time) while operating a one-car, owner/driver team with an owner/driver who sometimes displays the common sense of an avacado?

Unfortunately virtually all "Best-Anything" lists are purely subjective and are based on the whim of whomever is maintaining the list.

[Mike24]

No disrespect of opinions, but someone missing the Chase is rewarded with the Driver of the Year?

How about Denny Hamlin? Someone who ACTUALLY has deserved it. The guy is contending for the championship at Homestead, something Gordon didn't even do in his rookie year. Hamlin by far deserves it more than Tony Stewart. Again thats my opinion, so do not take offense to it.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Mike24

No disrespect of opinions, but someone missing the Chase is rewarded with the Driver of the Year?

How about Denny Hamlin? Someone who ACTUALLY has deserved it. The guy is contending for the championship at Homestead, something Gordon didn't even do in his rookie year. Hamlin by far deserves it more than Tony Stewart. Again thats my opinion, so do not take offense to it.

Valid Point, but that's what they feel, so that's the way it is. Denny deserves some respect though. He has accomplished alot.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I was going strictly from memory, Q88. I now remember that it was the rear window, but whatever it was, I remember NASCAR had the proverbial cow! I also remember that NASCAR did indeed give the car back in pieces but, for some reason, it sticks in my mind that they kept the engine? You remember anything about that?

Best to my recollection the engine was given back first. It was several days/weeks/months later the car came back in pieces... Don't quote me though.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

No disrespect of opinions, but someone missing the Chase is rewarded with the Driver of the Year?.

I see your point but someone missing the playoff with multiple wins is as good a canidate for some recognition as a driver who made the playoff with no wins. All bringing the playoffs into the formula does is validate the fact that NASCAR's bogus playoff system is just that, bogus.

Originally Posted by Mike24

How about Denny Hamlin? Someone who ACTUALLY has deserved it. The guy is contending for the championship at Homestead, something Gordon didn't even do in his rookie year. Hamlin by far deserves it more than Tony Stewart. Again thats my opinion, so do not take offense to it.

I totally agree. After I posted the original I remembered Denny. He rates a lot of acolades; he's in the top four or five in points running with a team which had no record of any sort of consistent performance. I think he's doing a great job.

All that being said I get the sense (I'm possibly wrong but I doubt it) that you've developed some sort of animosity toward the formerly tubby Tony? To be honest with you he's no great favourite of mine either, however...
Since you brought Hamlin's stellar rookie year into the mix, may I respectfully remind you of Stewart's rookie year:
three wins
12 top fives
21 top tens
two poles
fourth in final standings
Other than having three poles to Stewart's two, it looks to me as though, comparitably, Hamiln is slightly lagging behind Tony on a rookie-to-rookie basis.

Have a nice day...

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Valid Point, but that's what they feel, so that's the way it is. Denny deserves some respect though. He has accomplished alot.

I'm not gonna change their picks of course, but I'm questioning why a driver missing the Chase is the Driver of the Year? I mean yeah, he's won 2 Chase races, but that by no means make a driver the Driver of the Year. Hamlin may have won 2 races the whole year, but he's been consistent the whole year, made the Chase, and is contending for the championship. That's amazing for a rookie.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I see your point but someone missing the playoff with multiple wins is as good a canidate for some recognition as a driver who made the playoff with no wins. All bringing the playoffs into the formula does is validate the fact that NASCAR's bogus playoff system is just that, bogus.



I totally agree. After I posted the original I remembered Denny. He rates a lot of acolades; he's in the top four or five in points running with a team which had no record of any sort of consistent performance. I think he's doing a great job.

All that being said I get the sense (I'm possibly wrong but I doubt it) that you've developed some sort of animosity toward the formerly tubby Tony? To be honest with you he's no great favourite of mine either, however...
Since you brought Hamlin's stellar rookie year into the mix, may I respectfully remind you of Stewart's rookie year:
three wins
12 top fives
21 top tens
two poles
fourth in final standings
Other than having three poles to Stewart's two, it looks to me as though, comparitably, Hamiln is slightly lagging behind Tony on a rookie-to-rookie basis.

Have a nice day...

That is true, but Tony isn't a rookie this year, but Hamlin is. And, under the Winston Cup standings, Stewart would be beating Hamlin, so I'm not saying Stewart dosen't deserve it, he has a valid case for it, but I think Hamlin deserves it more because of the fact you don't see alot of rookies contending for championships, and look at Hamlin, he's contending, and he still has a chance at winning it if Johnson has a mechanical failure or a wreck. I'm not saying Tony dosen't deserve it, I'm saying Hamlin deserves it more than he does because of the fact Hamlin is a rookie; who expected him to contend this year? Just my opinion though.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

That is true, but Tony isn't a rookie this year, but Hamlin is. And, under the Winston Cup standings, Stewart would be beating Hamlin, so I'm not saying Stewart dosen't deserve it, he has a valid case for it, but I think Hamlin deserves it more because of the fact you don't see alot of rookies contending for championships, and look at Hamlin, he's contending, and he still has a chance at winning it if Johnson has a mechanical failure or a wreck. I'm not saying Tony dosen't deserve it, I'm saying Hamlin deserves it more than he does because of the fact Hamlin is a rookie; who expected him to contend this year? Just my opinion though.

That's an opinion I can easily agree with. My personal suggestion of Stewart was based solely on his winning and helping to prove that NA$CAR's silly playoff system is simply a farce perpetrated on race fans.