[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I believe that NA$CAR realizes that, whether they openly admit it or not, the absolute best racing in NASCAR at present is the CTS series. This leads me to think that NA$CAR's basic thought it to make the "stock cars" most like the trucks, as in non-aerodynamic and "boxy?"

I still think it stinks, whether it reaches NA$CAR's objective or not.

Bob, I was wonderin when you would return to this madness. Your "Na$carmobile" has been a hot topic.

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I believe that NA$CAR realizes that, whether they openly admit it or not, the absolute best racing in NASCAR at present is the CTS series. This leads me to think that NA$CAR's basic thought it to make the "stock cars" most like the trucks, as in non-aerodynamic and "boxy?"

I still think it stinks, whether it reaches NA$CAR's objective or not.

I think they should shorten the races to the length of say, the CTS or Busch races. These Cup races have too much snoozing time with everyone cruising around in the mid-portions of the race. In the truck series, there's no time for kicking on the cruise control and keep peoples interest.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I think they should shorten the races to the length of say, the CTS or Busch races. These Cup races have too much snoozing time with everyone cruising around in the mid-portions of the race. In the truck series, there's no time for kicking on the cruise control and keep peoples interest.

How about a similiar format to the World of Outlaws? Qualifying heat races?
A semi-main and then a final main event?

Methinks that'd keep the fans on their toes, and snoozing on the couch to a minimum.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

How about a similiar format to the World of Outlaws? Qualifying heat races?
A semi-main and then a final main event?

Methinks that'd keep the fans on their toes, and snoozing on the couch to a minimum.

Bob, you and Nevada both have excellent ideas. That would probably keep all fans on their toes. By all fans I mean those that follow the sport for other than the wrecks and the ones that just watch it for the wrecks.

[wingkey1]

Appears to be a number of long time fans/followers on board this thread.

Being one as well, thought I'd share a pondering I've had.

Been pondering the impact of the "foreign" powerplants. Engines of tomorrow? (EOT) "Foreign" powerplants have had much more time, $, engineering, etc. thrown in to them over the past several years (decades?) than those of domestic brand. EOT's have been engineered to really twist up into ranges of RPM that would grenade those racing NASCAR Nextel today. And they get up to those ranges in an eyeblink. Domestic manufacturers are in the financial toilet these days. Ford most obviously the latest mess.

I will watch with great interest to see if a switch to foreign powerplants occurs simply because they have the greatest odds of finishing the race. With COT removing the unique nuiances, and the inherent raciness / non-raciness of the different manufacurers body styles, folks are gonna go with the percentages in the powerplant area.

Case in point - IRL started out with normally aspirated Buicks and Chevy's I believe. What's predominant and winning there now? And the reason?

Yeah I know, I need to get over it.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Appears to be a number of long time fans/followers on board this thread.

Being one as well, thought I'd share a pondering I've had.

Been pondering the impact of the "foreign" powerplants. Engines of tomorrow? (EOT) "Foreign" powerplants have had much more time, $, engineering, etc. thrown in to them over the past several years (decades?) than those of domestic brand. EOT's have been engineered to really twist up into ranges of RPM that would grenade those racing NASCAR Nextel today. And they get up to those ranges in an eyeblink. Domestic manufacturers are in the financial toilet these days. Ford most obviously the latest mess.

I will watch with great interest to see if a switch to foreign powerplants occurs simply because they have the greatest odds of finishing the race. With COT removing the unique nuiances, and the inherent raciness / non-raciness of the different manufacurers body styles, folks are gonna go with the percentages in the powerplant area.

Case in point - IRL started out with normally aspirated Buicks and Chevy's I believe. What's predominant and winning there now? And the reason?

Yeah I know, I need to get over it.

I, too, am a rather long time stock car racing fan. Why, I actually remember NASCAR in the BG (Before Gordon) era. I actually remember Karl Kiekhaeffer, but that's another story.

NASCAR steadfastly refuses to run anything but a push-rod engine. As I remember, and I may be wrong, but Ford tried to push NASCAR into using their OHC engine in the early 70's or late 60's but they were stonewalled and Ford ran it in the GP Series.

I heard on of the NA$CAR talking heads asked the question on a radio interview awhile back and the answer went something like: "NASCAR wants to keep the costs down and we will continue to do this by using stock normally aspirated, pushrod engines."

Oh really? You mandate hand-built, custom-made, non-stock engines, which require a battalion of engineers to tune and maintain, and NA$CAR calls this "cost-cutting?" Oh well, I guess everything is relative, eh?

BTW, I believe you'll find that IRL originally mandated Olds Aurora engines.

Yeah, I guess I should "get over it," too. But hope lives eternally in the human breast.

[wingkey1]

re: Pushrod engines

Yup, yup. Forgot completely this element. Tends to limit RPM (comparably). Good point (yours) around how the claim is that maintaining the "pushrod" will put halters on price. Reality being what it is, the OHV will become (maybe already has already become) the lesser expensive.

re: Olds Aurora / IRL

Yup. I knew I was missing something. Memory bank failure. Did visit the IRL site few moments ago - featured article re: engines - the Honda engine program. The intended only for IRL.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

re: Pushrod engines

Yup, yup. Forgot completely this element. Tends to limit RPM (comparably). Good point (yours) around how the claim is that maintaining the "pushrod" will put halters on price. Reality being what it is, the OHV will become (maybe already has already become) the lesser expensive..

Less expensive with, from what little I know about the subject, no appreciable reduction in reliability. I fear it's a matter of that old, tired reasoning; "It's the way my grand daddy did it; it's the way my daddy did it, and damn it, it's the way I'm gonna do it!"

Originally Posted by wingkey1

re: Olds Aurora / IRL

Yup. I knew I was missing something. Memory bank failure. Did visit the IRL site few moments ago - featured article re: engines - the Honda engine program. The intended only for IRL.

You may be right. somethinmg in the back of my teflon-coated brain tells me that the IRL used stock block GM engines the initial; year then went to the Olds engine in year dux.

I knew this because, being from the Indianapolis area, I followed the breakup of the F1 Wantabe Series, a.k.a. CART, closely. I am one of the very few race fan who cheered loudly when Tony George told Roger Penske, Chip Ganassi, and the other car owners who actually wanted to run the series for their personal benefit, to go pack sand.

My American race-loving, simplisic little heart actually hoped that Tony would tell the people who wanted to run the "touch-me-and-I-break" rear-engined pieces of doo-doo to go play elsewhere and that IRL was going to run nothing but Silver Crown sprint cars in its series AND IN THE INDY 500! You know, the type cars that Troy Ruttman, Lee Wallard and Johynny Parsons won with back when Indy was a BIG race.

Yeah, I know, get over it, Tanner!

[wingkey1]

Bob Tanner: "You may be right. somethinmg in the back of my teflon-coated brain tells me that the IRL used stock block GM engines the initial; year then went to the Olds engine in year dux."

Look, look - neither of us is fully flat line -

IRL in 1996 & 1997 ran Ford Cosworth, Menard V8 (essentially Chevy), and Buick. A Toyota engine shows up in the race results after the first few seasons as well. As recent as 2002 - 2004 Chevy (Menard) still had an IRL "program" with some teams participating.

OK. Guess that is license for both of us to continue to dabble in memory quests.