[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I just wonder when they will change the "S" in NASCAR to stand for Spec instead of Stock.

Spec standing for "SPECIAL" !!!! LOL

[wingkey1]

'tis been a long, long, long, long time since resemblance to "stock" cars existed. Outter skins close (?) to the stock version are pretty much the last remaining element. To say the engines are at all like those that come from the represented manufacturers "stock" pieces is, --- well it would be absurd.

COT is NASCARS attempt at cost savings with safety inclusions and the ever present "level the playing field" thing. Near every race/sanctioning body plays here at some time, at some degree, and with varied success. From WKA to Quarter Midgets right on up to the CART/IRL/Champ Car (or whatever the frig they want themselves called today).

It will be interesting to see just how well it works out. Still tend to believe it is consistent with the long term goal of "splitting" NASCAR in to divisions/leagues whatever in order to allow for additional venues that NASCAR openly says it must attain for continued growth. Gotta have "sameness" in cars when the league champsionship series and the world series are held.

The race (at least the intent will be) will go more in to the hands of the driver, the engine builder, the gear selector, and (on the "drivers tracks") the set up person. "Even" in cars will also put greater emphasis on the pit crews/stops as a means to gain positions.

It's a grand experiment and whether it is the present COT or some variation of same, I expect the transition to "oneness" is a forgone conclusion.

Gonna be fun to watch. Sorry for long windedness.

[WVGrandma4Kasey]

I sure thought it was interesting, and informative. Thank you wingkey1.

[Wampinrock]

The "wing" thing may indeed be on target, but the subject (COT) is an abuse to my traditional view of NASCAR racing and is an anethma to the very venue that has been so successful, drawing so many fans and viewers, establishing the traditional stock car racing and; must be a source of intestinal distress to those who have grown with the sport (i.e. Ned Jarrett, Childress, the King and so very many others.) For the media to say (especially the take-over nextel jerks) that the nascar tradition is being upheld is far more that a mere joke; it is an insult to my inteligence! All too often, the current announcers are (forced) saying that "Stewart is a two-time nextel champion"...Gordon is a multi-nextel champion" is proof that they are attempting to re-write history...not-with-standing that the COT and other rules changes are surely calulated to increase the revenues and not foster the traditional, albeit popular, venues that have created the successes! The day is coming that one can sit in the grandstands of the modern nascar race and not meet one fan that enjoyed Richard Petty, Earnhardt Sr or even a guy named LaBonte...geez...the sport is turning to melba toast. (Nor do I really believe that Brian is attempting greater safety...why would he allow any Bodine or Busch driver on the track?)

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Wampinrock

The "wing" thing may indeed be on target, but the subject (COT) is an abuse to my traditional view of NASCAR racing and is an anethma to the very venue that has been so successful, drawing so many fans and viewers, establishing the traditional stock car racing and; must be a source of intestinal distress to those who have grown with the sport (i.e. Ned Jarrett, Childress, the King and so very many others.) For the media to say (especially the take-over nextel jerks) that the nascar tradition is being upheld is far more that a mere joke; it is an insult to my inteligence! All too often, the current announcers are (forced) saying that "Stewart is a two-time nextel champion"...Gordon is a multi-nextel champion" is proof that they are attempting to re-write history...not-with-standing that the COT and other rules changes are surely calulated to increase the revenues and not foster the traditional, albeit popular, venues that have created the successes! The day is coming that one can sit in the grandstands of the modern nascar race and not meet one fan that enjoyed Richard Petty, Earnhardt Sr or even a guy named LaBonte...geez...the sport is turning to melba toast. (Nor do I really believe that Brian is attempting greater safety...why would he allow any Bodine or Busch driver on the track?)

Wamp, the way you put things.





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp...p=ZSYYYYYYYYGB

[nascarfan24]

Originally Posted by Wampinrock

The "wing" thing may indeed be on target, but the subject (COT) is an abuse to my traditional view of NASCAR racing and is an anethma to the very venue that has been so successful, drawing so many fans and viewers, establishing the traditional stock car racing and; must be a source of intestinal distress to those who have grown with the sport (i.e. Ned Jarrett, Childress, the King and so very many others.) For the media to say (especially the take-over nextel jerks) that the nascar tradition is being upheld is far more that a mere joke; it is an insult to my inteligence! All too often, the current announcers are (forced) saying that "Stewart is a two-time nextel champion"...Gordon is a multi-nextel champion" is proof that they are attempting to re-write history...not-with-standing that the COT and other rules changes are surely calulated to increase the revenues and not foster the traditional, albeit popular, venues that have created the successes! The day is coming that one can sit in the grandstands of the modern nascar race and not meet one fan that enjoyed Richard Petty, Earnhardt Sr or even a guy named LaBonte...geez...the sport is turning to melba toast. (Nor do I really believe that Brian is attempting greater safety...why would he allow any Bodine or Busch driver on the track?)

amen!

[wingkey1]

"not meet one fan that enjoyed Richard Petty, Earnhardt Sr or even a guy named LaBonte...geez"

How about - enjoyed seeing Richard Petty at the Northern 300 racing against Fireball, the Allisons, Cale, etc.?

Any takers on where the Northern 300 took place?

Attended this race a number of times. Great and oft forgotten track.

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

"not meet one fan that enjoyed Richard Petty, Earnhardt Sr or even a guy named LaBonte...geez"

How about - enjoyed seeing Richard Petty at the Northern 300 racing against Fireball, the Allisons, Cale, etc.?

Any takers on where the Northern 300 took place?

Attended this race a number of times. Great and oft forgotten track.

Trenton Speedway, Trenton N.J.?

[wingkey1]

Excellent!

Trenton, NJ indeed.

• 1.5 mile in final configuration
• 5 turn track
• 2200' front straightaway
• Decreasing radius turn 1 & 2. Drove the set up boys nuts. (Pocono 1 & 2 is modeled after Trenton)
• 1 & 2 banked 10 degrees
• Banked dogleg in back straight made need for a RIGHT turn (Turn 3 to some)
• 3 & 4 (or is it 4 & 5?) banked 15 degrees and was a real sweeper that let drivers bury the throttle near all of the way through and in to the front straight
• NASCAR Winston Cup, Indy, NASCAR Modifieds, midgets, and perhaps some I am forgetting
• The absolute legends of NASCAR raced this track

[wingkey1]

FinSt#DriverSponsor / OwnerCarLapsMoneyStatusLed1212Bobby Allison Richard Howard '72 Chevrolet2007,900running532171Bobby Isaac K & K Insurance (Nord Krauskopf )'72 Dodge2004,825running1173343Richard Petty Petty Enterprises '72 Plymouth1993,800running274790Fred Lorenzen Junie Donlavey '71 Ford1971,475running05824Cecil Gordon Cecil Gordon '71 Mercury1941,325running261148James Hylton Hylton Engineering (James Hylton )'71 Ford1941,050running07692Larry Smith Harley Smith '71 Ford192765running08472Benny Parsons L.G. DeWitt '71 Mercury192985running092247Raymond Williams Raymond Williams '71 Ford187900running0101830Walter Ballard Ballard Racing (Vic Ballard )'71 Mercury186875running0111764Elmo Langley Elmo Langley '71 Ford185850running012267Dean Dalton Dean Dalton '71 Mercury184775running0132860Bob Greeley Bob Greeley '70 Plymouth182500running0142177Charlie Roberts Charlie Roberts '71 Ford182725running0151525Jabe Thomas Don Robertson '70 Plymouth181700running0162370J.D. McDuffie J.D. McDuffie '71 Chevrolet180675running017128Ed Negre Ed Negre '70 Dodge179645running0182596Richard Childress Richard Childress '71 Chevrolet177385running0193040D.K. Ulrich D.K. Ulrich '71 Ford176380running0203134Wendell Scott Wendell Scott '71 Ford171375running0212779Frank Warren Frank Warren '70 Dodge169620running0221657David Ray Boggs David Ray Boggs '70 Dodge127365oil leak0231926Earl Brooks Earl Brooks '71 Ford115360running024910Bill Champion Bill Champion '71 Ford107620engine02552Dave Marcis Dave Marcis '72 Dodge104650crash1263366Fred Drake Blank & Kalashian (Vernon Blank )'72 Pontiac93345engine0271306Neil Castles Neil Castles '71 Dodge85340fuel pump0282923Ed Hessert Don Robertson '70 Plymouth50335crash0292419Henley Gray Henley Gray '71 Ford33580engine0301474Bill Shirey Bill Shirey '70 Plymouth42325dq031104John Sears J. Marvin Mills '70 Plymouth15575engine0322001Earle Canavan Earle Canavan '71 Plymouth8325oil leak0333281A.J. Cox A.J. Cox '71 Dodge2325overheating
Above was line up for July 1972 race at Trenton. Attended this. Check out some of the names.

[Wampinrock]

Now, that's impressive and I humbly bow to your memory, experience and love of the sport....that's Great, I don't care who you are; That's great right there!

[LSC9901]

WOW .. this has turned into an informative and interesting thread. At this point the COT is all speculation. As in the past on these threads there always seems to be some posters who have a vision of the future and I believe they have some true mystical powers that allows them to see into the future. It makes tons of sense to have NA$CAR want to form divisions and leagues to increase profit. It might also be an advantage to the fan by brining races back to tracks that are no longer being run and maybe even add others. Seems like the COT would add the needed parity. The sad part is that there are a few of us who remember the days of the good old boys. When racing was all about how far you could push the limits without blowing the engine, crew, tires etc.

Another fear I have is just how much more of what we have today will we lose? The open wheel cars no longer use the car jack system when changing tires. I believe their re-fueling system is force fed versus gravity fed. Seems as though IROC will be the NA$CAR of the future. The competition will be all about team failure versus how well they can build a car. The future NA$CAR race will start by the team drawing a number from a hat and then they will go to the NA$CAR garage and pick up the car that they drew. When it gets to that point it will be called NA$CAR of Tomorrow. The acronym will be NOT !!!!!

[wingkey1]

"The future NA$CAR race will start by the team drawing a number from a hat and then they will go to the NA$CAR garage and pick up the car that they drew"

Ouch! THAT would truly be a sin / unacceptable / no good --- all forms of bad words.

Interesting though that IROC was "on my lips" (fingers/keyboard?) in earlier post.

Just don't want to believe it will ever come to eliminating the team that is challenged to configure the semi-same vehicle (COT) to the track, driver, run lengths (fuel stop to fuel stop), etc. Don't know that COT will eliminate a teams ability to vary uniquely items like connect points for trailing arms, weight placement, brake bias, select the right gear, etc. I think (and surely hope) not because that is where the real "work" and intrigue of the sport lies.

When you've had the opportunity to raise that pannard, change that shocks rebound rate, vary the offsets, then stick her out there with your stopwatch in hand and measure the results of your efforts --- well that's when the sport really gets interesting.

I loved the Busch boys at Richmond during practice. Stand by the track at end of straight and you can flat out hear/see that they both drive their cars in easily a full length more than ANYONE else out there. And I do mean anyone. Did it make me want me to sing their praises? Nope, made me immediately think -- OK if that's the way they like it, (and it sure seems to work for them) what am I going to do to be sure the brakes serve them well the full day and how am I going to ensure the additional loading on that right front is compensated for. Gotta love it. COT or not, ya got to adjust to your driver, track, conditions, etc. Ya just gotta love it.

[Quality88]

Here's what I'm gathering from some of the reactions by the drivers who don't like them. I think it was Jeffy-pooh that said they were taking a step backwords, with it being a big bulky looking car. It seems there are others that agree. It seems to me it may put more back on the driver then aerodynamics. It won't be sit back and look pretty anymore. I'm not saying that drivers today don't have that much talent. There is alot with much talent. What I'm saying is there are not many with Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt talent(or Allison, Yarborough etc, etc), were if the car sucks they still could drive the wheels off of it and contend for the win. I'm not saying all drivers are like that today. Some would be able to pull it off because of their racin backgrounds others though would struggle. I still don't like that damn car but it (like those damn Yotas) are comin no matter what.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Here's what I'm gathering from some of the reactions by the drivers who don't like them. I think it was Jeffy-pooh that said they were taking a step backwords, with it being a big bulky looking car. It seems there are others that agree. It seems to me it may put more back on the driver then aerodynamics. .

I believe that NA$CAR realizes that, whether they openly admit it or not, the absolute best racing in NASCAR at present is the CTS series. This leads me to think that NA$CAR's basic thought it to make the "stock cars" most like the trucks, as in non-aerodynamic and "boxy?"

I still think it stinks, whether it reaches NA$CAR's objective or not.