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For a long time now there has been a lot of discussion about how everyone feels about the current point system. Some feel that drivers with no victories have no business in the chase or at the very least those drivers shouldn't be considered champions. Others think consistency is the key to the championship.

There has been talk among posters that they'd like to see a change in the points system. Possibly by awarding more points to the winner. If the France family asked you what would you suggest for changes to the current points system ?

There are no wrong answers !!!

[WVGrandma4Kasey]

Thats an easy one, 25 extra points for a win ,at lease 5 points for a pole. Give them something worth racing for, I love to see drivers more concerned with winning. And better reason to go for the pole. Use them Damn tires.

[Bob Tanner]

I recently posted this topic but, for the life of me, I can't find it to cut & paste so I'll post anew.

Bob's proposed changes to the NASCAR point system, and reason's why

1st... 225 pts
2ns... 200 pts
3rd.... 180 pts
4th... 165pts
5th... 155 pts
This system rewards a driver for attempting to race for the win, or at least, a top five finish, yet it still rewards consistency.

6th thru 32th ...same points as given in the present system.

I maintain that racing for "consistency" often equals mediocre racing and sometimes outright boring competition, but the overall concept is sound. It's worked for NA$CAR for 34 season and I see no reason to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

32th thru 43rd ... no points. These drivers get prize money only.

The purpose of this change is to do away with the "rolling wrecks" which return to the fray after collisions. These cars are not competitive in any way. They often get in the way of the actual racing, and their appearance is a detraction from the professional impression major-league stock car racing should portray.

Do completely away with the "Dave Marcis" Honorary Bonus Point. (5 points for leading a lap)

An absolutely meaningless award. Far too many times I have seen a driver let another driver get the 5 point bonus, be it a team mate, or just a buddy. Or, some field-filler will stay out during a yellow, merely to garner the 5 point bonus. The concept is OK, I guess, but the the award could well be called the "Drivers who can't get recognition any other way want bonus points too" bonus.

Increase the 10 points bonus for leading most laps to 25 points.

A driver who has accomplished this has actually achieved something significant and deserves the reward for doing so.

I've run this system for the last four seasons and the most notable change was that Kenseth would have won in 2003 by only 20 points, not 90. Jimmy Johnson would have been champion 2004, vice Kurt.
Neither result is a resounding reason to accept this proposed change but I believe it would result in less points racing and more actual racing, yet keep the overall congruous concept that NA$CAR wants so badly.

[WVGrandma4Kasey]

Bob I'm so sick of the word "Consistency" it's not a racing word and should of never become one. Make winning worth while, 2th place is first loser, half the points of a win. So these's pussys cry, and I don't care. I know it will never happen. We will never see real racing in NASCAR again. So those who can, out to the independent backwood races.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by WVGrandma4Kasey

Bob I'm so sick of the word "Consistency" it's not a racing word and should of never become one. Make winning worth while, 2th place is first loser, half the points of a win. So these's pussys cry, and I don't care. I know it will never happen. We will never see real racing in NASCAR again. So those who can, out to the independent backwood races.

Grandma

As you probably have deduced, I'm no big fan of "Consistency," either. You, I and a few others here remember, and have been personally involved in stock car racing back when it was actual racing. Even the local tracks have "NASCAR'd their programs up with phony "Chases," "Penalties for rough driving," "Lucky Dogs, etc., etc. And, Gawd help you if you wait until after a race and slug some wreck-causing Bozo as he climbs out of his car!
Real racing, as we remember it back in the 50's and 60's is as dead as Mel Gibson's chances of being selected to be US Ambassador to Israel.

I kept the concept of consistency in my plan because (a) when not abused, it does work somewhat in NASCAR's system, and (b) Today's new fans, loveable little stick&ball retreads that many of them are, would become absolutely apoplectic if some consideration of "fairness" (i.e. "consistency) wasn't worked into NA$CAR's point system.

One thing I didn't address in my proposal was
STOP THE STUPID PLAYOFF!
All it does is artificially manipulate the final ten weeks of the season. I can think of no valid reason, except to increase TV ratings to have the silly thing. And, if TV rating were the most important thing, then replace the cars with unicycles and replace Tony, Jeff, Kasey. Kurt, et al, with the Victoria's Secret models and lets see what a race with that format would do, ratings-wish?

[Gotham Dark Knight]

I'd give an additional bonus of 25 points if you can spin out someone without causing an accident...and a -75 for every accident you do cause...

make it a bit more interesting...

Oh, yeah, and you can draw for rivalries out of a hat...if you draw your rivals name and cause him an accident...that's an extra bonus of 150 points...

But if you are really trailing in the standings...you can go for the ultimate bonus of 1,000 points...by completing a lap in the opposite direction of the way they are running...

But that's just my take.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

I'd give an additional bonus of 25 points if you can spin out someone without causing an accident...and a -75 for every accident you do cause...

make it a bit more interesting...

Oh, yeah, and you can draw for rivalries out of a hat...if you draw your rivals name and cause him an accident...that's an extra bonus of 150 points...

But if you are really trailing in the standings...you can go for the ultimate bonus of 1,000 points...by completing a lap in the opposite direction of the way they are running...

But that's just my take.

Don't let Humpy Wheeler know about your earth-shaking idea. He'll try and incorporate it in the next Special Paint Job/ Toy Car Derby, a.k.a. The Winston, a.k.a. I have no idea what they call it now.

[WVGrandma4Kasey]

Kyle Busch has been really getting good at spining in a caution this year, did a great Job at Ca., and only went from 3th to 10th. Wonder if he took lessons from Mark Martin. Since Kasey needed one then too, I'd give him 25 points, masterfully done.

[3wide]

I like how Bob's idea. Except one thing, instead of keeping 6th 32nd the same, I'd only give points out to the top 25. 26-43 gets purse money...no points. Really, if you're a bottom feeder, what do points matter anyhow.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3wide

I like how Bob's idea. Except one thing, instead of keeping 6th 32nd the same, I'd only give points out to the top 25. 26-43 gets purse money...no points. Really, if you're a bottom feeder, what do points matter anyhow.

I can go along with you. 32 was merely a number I picked out of the atmosphere.

[oncea3fan]

like the idea of giving more points to the winner,
and pay points back to 30th, after that money only.

winner =360
2nd =330
3rd-10th less 20pts per spot
11th-20 less 10pts per spot
21st-30th less 5pts per spot.

20 pts for most laps lead
and 10 pts for the pole,any more then that and you would have the possiblity of 2nd place earning more pts than the winner.


also drop all garrentees to teams, the fastest 43 race.
1 practice before qualifing and thats it, qualify a then race no three or four pracitice to get it right.

some teams will go for the pole and then have to adjust in the race, others will go for race set up but end upstarting in the rear, then we get to see them come thru the field.

also one stock body style(not makes) for all races, no off set cars for short tracks no super tight gaps for the super speedways, you beable to run you daga car at martinsville.do away all the specailty cars, a daytona car a dover car and pocono car.


alright thats it brain get up your outta here I'm takin over.

[carlab68]

While we are on the subject of points...what the heck is with the owner points?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by oncea3fan

like the idea of giving more points to the winner,
and pay points back to 30th, after that money only.

winner =360
2nd =330
3rd-10th less 20pts per spot
11th-20 less 10pts per spot
21st-30th less 5pts per spot.

20 pts for most laps lead
and 10 pts for the pole,any more then that and you would have the possiblity of 2nd place earning more pts than the winner..

We agree. The bottom line is a lot of folks want to see emphasis put on WINNING. I like the idea of points for pole but I have a problem with not every race has a pole winner. If quals are rained out then the field is set by points. While I think running for the pole merits an extra award, I don't think giving points is the right answer. But...?

Originally Posted by oncea3fan

also drop all garrentees to teams, the fastest 43 race.
1 practice before qualifing and thats it, qualify a then race no three or four pracitice to get it right.
some teams will go for the pole and then have to adjust in the race, others will go for race set up but end upstarting in the rear, then we get to see them come thru the field.
also one stock body style(not makes) for all races, no off set cars for short tracks no super tight gaps for the super speedways, you beable to run you daga car at martinsville.do away all the specailty cars, a daytona car a dover car and pocono car.
alright thats it brain get up your outta here I'm takin over.

YES!!! Here we have addressed a real problem no one but actual race fans ever talk about.

How does this sound to you?

Qualifying

Run a normal qualifying round. Have each car run a mandatory two laps. This would do away with the silly throw-away lap getting up to speed on restrictor plate tracks. The total amount of time for the two is the official qualifying effort.

The fastest 32 are locked into the field, irregardless of driver, team owner, colour of car, day of week, whatever. The remainder of the teams have a choice; either stand on their original times or throw them out and try to qualify again. Have a thirty-minute break between qualifying periods where a team could tweak their car. If a car wrecks on its first attempt a team could pull out the secondary car and use the time up until 2nd qualifying begins to ready their car. After 2nd qualifying the fastest eleven cars make the field and its sayonara for the rest, no matter if its driven by a Chad Chaffin or someone named Earhardt, Martin, Stewart, et al.

The bottom line is: The fastest 43 cars start the race and everyone has an equal chance of making, or rather NOT making it.

Stock Bodies

Hey, Brian! It's the National Assoc of S-T-O-C-K Car Auto Racing! Deal with it!

Have each manufacturer furnish stock templates to NASCAR to use for inspection. Then each car MUST adhere to these stock templates. The ONLY modification allowed would be for the wheel wells to be cut to accommodate larger tires. Stock height, no phony spoiler, air dams, etc. Nothing allowed in the body configuration that isn't on a car that the manufacturer makes available to the public and has sold a minimum of 500 prior to Daytona.

Engines, steering controls, and the like can be modified and have special parts used in the interests of endurance and safety. Shocks, springs, and suspension must use stock factory parts (truck parts can be used on the cars)

Set a maximum and minimum wheelbase. (I think a three-inch difference would do nicely) Any car running must run stock wheelbase and it must fall within the three-inch window. Cup cars would run to a full-bodied wheelbase and Cup Lite (BGN) would run shorter, "pony car" wheelbases.

NASCAR would no longer "approve" cars for competition. If a car can meet all the above specifications, it's good to go. If Ford, GM, Daimler, or whatever doesn't design a car slick enough to compete...<sigh> As they say in Jacksonville, FL, "Life's a beach!"

We're both on the same page, Once. I just took your excellent idea and expanded on it a bit. Thanks for the chance to vent.

[oncea3fan]

they used to do a second round qualifing. they(nascar) would take the fastest 20 on friday, allothers could stand or requalify on saturday,but that was only for 21st on back.

I personally like one round and your done fastest 43 three there.

that would add the DRAMA nasacar wants, say JJ loses it in qualifing like dover, yeah his the point leader but he just lost 360 points to who ever wins the race cause he's in the hauler watching on sunday.

as far as bodies go your right on, but I would allow them a spoiler(really needed I think for the speeds they run.
but give everyone the same amount of square inches, what ever config you want say 300 sq inches can be 5 in high by 60 long. or 10 high and 30 long. and anything inbetween. 4 straight sides.easy to figureout.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by oncea3fan

they used to do a second round qualifing. they(nascar) would take the fastest 20 on friday, allothers could stand or requalify on saturday,but that was only for 21st on back.
I personally like one round and your done fastest 43 three there.
that would add the DRAMA nasacar wants, say JJ loses it in qualifing like dover, yeah his the point leader but he just lost 360 points to who ever wins the race cause he's in the hauler watching on sunday.
as far as bodies go your right on, but I would allow them a spoiler(really needed I think for the speeds they run.
but give everyone the same amount of square inches, what ever config you want say 300 sq inches can be 5 in high by 60 long. or 10 high and 30 long. and anything inbetween. 4 straight sides.easy to figureout.

We're on the same page, Once. It's just a matter of tweaking is where we slightly differ. What I like about your statements is that you have a complaint, then have thought about a solution. Far too many "Drive-by poster" throw out a "The rules sux! They need to change things!" Then never offer a viable solution. You are coming up with solutions. That is class.

I remember the two-day qualifying (Hell. I even remember when the Twin 125's in Feb were points races!) and the only thing I disliked about it was (a) a difference day and often completely different qualifying conditions. (b) They integrated the damn provisionals into it (back then I believe it was either three or five provisionals). My main complaint is the entire provisional concept. About anything to rid us of THAT would be acceptable.

I don;t like the idea of a NASCAR-designed spoiler. For years NASCAR had the strictly stock bodies and 500 sold rule. It worked just fine. As far as speeds go, IF they would run to a STOCK factory template, the cars would be as aerodynamic as bricks and would be "dirty" enough that spoilers, (and, dare we hope, restrictor plates?) wouldn't be needed. Would they be a bear to drive? You bet! But then, that's why the primadonas out there today are termed "professionals" and that's why they get paid the big bucks. The best drivers would win, the imposters would quickly show through.

Yep, you and I are looking at the same picture, just from slightly different perspectives. Keep up the good work.