[vincesanity82]

Ferrari's senior management has made it clear that it remains far from happy about McLaren's handling of the spy affair - and especially their continued insistence they had done nothing wrong until a recent public letter of apology. Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo and company CEO Jean Todt both hit out at McLaren during a meeting with the Italian press, stating they were furious at the way their Woking-based rivals approached the FIA hearings into the spying affair. -- AutoSport.com

autosport.com - F1 News: Ferrari still fuming over spy case

[Racer Duck]

It's obvious there's bad blood between McLaren and Ferrari. It's even more obvious that Ferrari believes the FIA is too lenient.

I was particularly amused at the parting statement: di Montezemolo hit out at the fact McLaren won Racing Car of the Year, and Lewis Hamilton International Driver of the Year at the recent Autosport Awards. "The English never miss a chance to demonstrate their lack of sportsmanship," he said. "The best car is the one that wins, and that's the Ferrari."

fyi: Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro won the Constructor's Champioinship (McLaren was stripped of all points) and Kimi Räikkönen driving for Ferrari won the Driver's Championship, Hamilton finished 2nd.... FIA Formula One World Championship - Season Guide 2007

[DOF_power]

Thing is, McLaren lied thru their teeth.
The FIA commission found parts of Ferrari on McLaren's 2008 car, and suspect the 2007 was influenced too. And a lot from McLaren knew about this, including the senior staff, and Mosley even said he thinks Hamilton also knew about this (just like alonso and de la Rosa) but he doesn't have the evidence.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Thing is, McLaren lied thru their teeth.
The FIA commission found parts of Ferrari on McLaren's 2008 car, and suspect the 2007 was influenced too. And a lot from McLaren knew about this, including the senior staff, and Mosley even said he thinks Hamilton also knew about this (just like alonso and de la Rosa) but he doesn't have the evidence.

This whole thing is so convoluted and filled with intrigue that some Hollywood hack just has to write a movie about it. From what I understand, Stepney, a Ferrari engineer, peddled his knowledge of secret Ferrari technology, first to Honda and finally to McLaren? Honda turned him down but a McLaren highly placed engineer took a packet of info from Ferrari and copied it, then used the info to copy secret parts used exclusively in a Ferrari F1 car.

Do I have this right, so far?

The FIA found that McLaren won the F1 championship last year using illegal parts (Ferrari-based) and have suspicions that multiple layers of personel, including the drivers and test drivers, knew this. They took the car owner's (Constructors) Championship away from McLaren, assigned a $1 million Euro fine (where this money will come from is another story unto itself) and a warning that no Ferrari-inspored parts will be found on next year's McLaren.

That would almost be like a high government official here selling, for example, satellite technology to some country which might use that exact technology against us, and we all know THAT would NEVER happen! <sigh> So, it's kind of difficult for we Americans to get a grasp of McLaren's transgressions.

The whole thing would make a good movie except it's already been done. Back in the 80's Sean Penn and someone famous whom I don't recall made a movie from the book, "The Falcon and the Snowman." The plot line was almost identical to the McLaren saga.

I'm so friggin' stupid but -

Where (anywhere) can I buy my street car, everyday consumer, McLaren? Can I get it with ABS and rear seat video for the kids? Exterior and interior colors of choice? Etc., etc.?

This makes NASCAR look so friggin' clean and fundamental that --- it, with all of its criticism, problems, challenges (accurate and idiotic) - not so bad. At least until an independent chassis manufacuter enters the mix at a level equal to and/or trumping manufacturers/sponsors/teams/drivers.

No wonder USA stock car (or it's most current close equivalent) continues to draw the best talents from the associated disciplines.

How do Ferrari's international unit sales compare with GM, Ford, Chrysler?

But what do we know?

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

This whole thing is so convoluted and filled with intrigue that some Hollywood hack just has to write a movie about it. From what I understand, Stepney, a Ferrari engineer, peddled his knowledge of secret Ferrari technology, first to Honda and finally to McLaren? Honda turned him down but a McLaren highly placed engineer took a packet of info from Ferrari and copied it, then used the info to copy secret parts used exclusively in a Ferrari F1 car.

Do I have this right, so far?

Check the link.
Gráfico La trama de espionaje en McLaren - Ferrari


The FIA has found Ferrari parts parts on McLaren's 2008 car.


FIA report shows Ferrari data on McLaren's 08 car

Friday 14th December 2007


The FIA report into McLaren's 2008 car reveals why the team to chose to come clean over the spy scandal.

Although McLaren's apology is likely to see them granted entry into the 2008 season, the FIA report is damning.

The Report by the FIA Technical Department to the World Motor Sport Council claims negligence on the part of the British team. It reads "The prior investigations by McLaren into the use of the confidential Ferrari information do not appear to have been very thorough."

It was found that the team were not honest over Mike Coughlan's role within the team and also discovered that senior figures at Woking were willing to use Ferrari's technical information on their 2008 challenger.

"The [senior McLaren engineers] on the 2007 and 2008 McLaren cars appear to have known that confidential Ferrari information was available from a "mole" and had prepared to use it to McLaren's advantage in the development of the 2007 and 2008 cars," reads the report.

Furthermore, the report uncovered that contrary to McLaren's evidence at the WMSC hearings, Coughlan did play an active role in the design of spurious systems, especially the brake balance system.

"McLaren's insistence before the WMSC that Coughlan had only a functional design role at McLaren is not backed up by the documents and interviews. He played a leadership role in the development of brake strategy for McLaren on their 2007 and 2008 cars...McLaren were previously keen to downplay his contribution."

The governing body's investigation found that McLaren had intended to run certain Ferrari systems on their 2008 car. "McLaren's installation of a [confidential] in the braking system of its 2008 car had been influenced by the receipt of Ferrari information."

McLaren were also looking into the possibility of using CO2 gas to inflate their tyres - a concept that was passed from Nigel Stepney onto Coughlan.



And before the finding they issued this statement.


McLaren propose freeze to halt spy secrets



McLaren has proposed to freeze development of certain aspects of its 2008 car, after acknowledging that Ferrari secrets penetrated more deeply into the British team than was previously thought.

With the FIA still to rule on the legality of the MP4-23 following the 'Stepneygate' scandal, a McLaren statement on Thursday revealed that the governing body's recent investigation did indeed uncover that "Ferrari information was more widely disseminated... than was previously communicated."

"McLaren greatly regrets that its own investigations did not identify this material and has written to the World Motor Sport Council to apologise for this," the team said.

The letter, to FIA President Max Mosley, acknowledged that the Ferrari secrets spread within McLaren further than its chief designer and drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso, contrary to the team's argument at the September hearing.
Click here to find out more!


The World Motor Sport Council is due to meet again on 14 February, where further sanctions could be added to McLaren's $100m fine and 2007 constructors' championship exclusion.

In a bid to avoid additional penalties, the team has offered to "impose a moratorium on development" of three separate systems that may have been infected by the Ferrari secrets.

The letter to Mosley seeks discussions "as to a moratorium of an appropriate length" on the use of "quickshift, fast fill and CO2 as a tyre gas."

f1live.com


McLaren haven't won any championship since 1999 BTW, since then only Ferrari (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007) and Renault (2005, 2006) have won all championships.


Here's also an older interview with Max Mosley on this:
Hardtalk.2007.31-10.Interview.Mosley.PDTV.BBC.World.avi

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

and CO2 as a tyre gas."[/color][/size][/size]

]

CO2 is one of the "secrets?" They've been doing that in NA__AR's three main series for at least two years, maybe longer. The big thing used to be nitrogen but now that is in use in the general public. I got new ties for my personal vehicle last spring and they filled them with nitrogen.

Not being a physicst I'm pretty vagyue on the exact properties of each gas. I was told awhile back that CO2 is more stable that nitrogen and you can put a higher pressure in the tire, making it seal better?

From personal experience, the nitrogen in my truck gives me a good ride, and the tires seem to remain balanced and wear more uniformily than with air alone.

It just seems odd that FIA is treating CO2 as a "secret concept?"

[DOF_power]

Nope, not entirely.
CO2 misxed with something

This mixture, known as HFC R404 A, was found to be most effective in a racing tyre when it was inflated with a blend of 50 per cent HFC R404 A and 50 per cent CO2.

Read this tread about Ferrari's secrets: Ferrari's SECRETS Expossed; SPEED/RACECAR ENGINEERING MAGAZINE