[Bob Tanner]

This is a personal request but, if you can come up with it, the picture might be a interest to all. Therefore I'm making an open post of this query.

You obviously have access to a picture archive I don't so I'm asking for help.

Can you find a picture of the experimental car which Renault (I believe) ran in F1 several years back? They tried to make a set up with tandem steering wheels work. It might have even been a FWD effort but I just can't remember.

I believe it only ran, at the most, two or three races then the attempt was dumped.

No, I haven't confused this with the tandem drive Indy car of the 30's.

Any way, if you can dig up some info on this I would appreciate it. I know I didn't dream the whole thing up.

[DOF_power]

Tandem steering ?!
You mean 4 wheel steering ?!


Benetton (now Renault F1) had 4 wheel steering on 1993 B193 .





McLaren also had a brake steer system in 97/98.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Tandem steering ?!
You mean 4 wheel steering ?!

.

Yep. I remember seeing one picture of it, in competition. It was really strange looking.

I don't remember the driver, the number or anything else. I believe it was circa late 60's or early 70's. I recall it had "elf" on the body and 'elf" is a part of Renault, no? (I probably have that wrong)

I swear I remember this. Please don't tell me that it's some wierd figment of my imagination.

[DOF_power]

You mean the Elf Tyrrell-Ford P34 6 wheeler ?!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

You mean the Elf Tyrrell-Ford P34 6 wheeler ?!

THANK YOU!!! I just knew that you would have something on this. I knew that I wasn'rt dreaming. I bet this is one you had completely forgotten about.

Now that I know what is was, I looked it up and found out some interesting things. I bet Duck, who is much more technical than I, plus a lot of others here might find this link of interest:

Tyrrell P34 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DOF_power]

Well I didn't forgot about it, just that I had a hard time understanding if you meant 4 wheel steering (movable rear wheels like on the B193), 4 wheel drive or brake steering 4 wheel steering (like on the McLarens).

When you mention Elf and 70s I understood you meant the 6 wheeler Tyrrell.

It was one of my favorites.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Well I didn't forgot about it, just that I had a hard time understanding if you meant 4 wheel steering (movable rear wheels like on the B193), 4 wheel drive or brake steering 4 wheel steering (like on the McLarens).

When you mention Elf and 70s I understood you meant the 6 wheeler Tyrrell.

It was one of my favorites.

One of those innovations which folks who never followed F1/Grand Prix would have missed completely.

[DOF_power]

>
^ Many measures were taken to "improve/fix" F1/GP racing so as to cut the costs, improve overtaking/the show, level the field, help the little guys, witch have failed or had the complete oposite effects and have murdered some good ideas/innovation (well the 6 was probably not one of them) and killed much of the soul of this once great series.
Overtaking was "helped" in being reduced, the little guys were "helped" in being eradicated, costs were "helped" in their spiraling and so on. Mosley even went as far as to proposse a spec chassis/F1COT for 2011.

The safety (the real one) like the survival cell and HANS and so on, were the only good things to come out of this.

Why is this universal madness in "fixing" going on everywhere and destroying once great sports ?!

[simple simon]

DOF ....... wasnt F1 the first to introduce the paddle type shifters on the steering wheels ? ....... and now they are offered on some production cars

[DOF_power]

Yes Ferrari did it in 1989.

Many technologies were pioneered and/or improved/refined on GP cars.

The detachable wheel rims were the first great thing in the first official GP in 1906. OHC/DOCH 4 valve layout was the hottest thing just before WWI.
The mid engined layout debuted in 1923, as did the first monocoque contruction GP car. Weight saving alloys we crucial in the 1930s. Direct injection in the 1950s along with disc brakes (from Le Mans). Advanced electronic engine management and sequential semi-automatics and composites.

The latest I've heard was that Renault F1 gave their partner Boeing an aerodynamical solution to reduce drag by 3% witch could/should save a lot of money in the future.
Also EADS anounced that the batery solution used by their partner McLaren F1 to power their F1 single seater's electronics will be used in their upcoming generation of tanks.
So GP cars still improve the breed, but it's a different type(s) of breed(s).