[simple simon]

another point about the watered-down field

not only was the series splt for the weekend .... keep in mind who also is no longer there

Montoya - Franchiti - Hornish Jr - Carpentier

[Team Yates]

You go girl!!

CONGRATULATIONS DANICA!!

[Quality88]

She won one race folks.... let's not get overanxious on this one.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Come on man...the sword cuts both ways...if a male driver was her age and racing on par to what she has been before the win...there would not be all the negative comments she is getting either...it would be a none story both ways...

Show me how many drivers compete under the type of scrutiny she is getting...or take the flak she is getting as well...and still win a race, any race...

No matter what the girl does it becomes a "yeah but..."...and that is silly...I mean who can compete with a moving bar???...what next?...she needs 5 or 10 wins?...she needs to win state side?...she needs to win on three wheels instead of four?....she needs to finish the race racing backwards?...where is this imaginary bar set at?

It's like all the flak Anna Kournikova took... yeah, she was hype...she helped the hype a lot... she won no singles titles...but she was playing well and taking doubles titles...and to hear people talk, the girl might as well have been a starlet that had no business being on the court...which was also far from the truth...

I will agree that most male drivers do not come under the scrutiny that she does. Period. Now ... while a lot of it is media driven she doesn't help. When was the last time a male driver was seen in provocative poses in SI ????? Doing that draws attention to herself. Is this good/bad ??? Probably either or neither. My point is that any male driver her age and theoretical talent with one victory will be identified as "Who ????" Put all her stats up on the board and judge her current status by her current stats. I find that her notoriety exceeds her stats.

You'll not see me move the bar for any driver but the bar is certainly in motion when it comes to her. In my world of NASCAR there are drivers that have been around for 20 plus years and some that have only been around a few. I don't care how long someone has been the face of NASCAR. It means nothing to me. When I compare one to another I look at the stats. I don't care if they are married with 3 kids, two dogs, an SUV and an in ground pool and the other driver is single and drives a 3 year old truck. It's the stats.

My longstanding point of view is the same as I stated earlier. If she were a he we'd have never heard about this win. Get over it.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I will agree that most male drivers do not come under the scrutiny that she does. Period. Now ... while a lot of it is media driven she doesn't help. When was the last time a male driver was seen in provocative poses in SI ????? Doing that draws attention to herself. Is this good/bad ??? Probably either or neither. My point is that any male driver her age and theoretical talent with one victory will be identified as "Who ????" Put all her stats up on the board and judge her current status by her current stats. I find that her notoriety exceeds her stats.

You'll not see me move the bar for any driver but the bar is certainly in motion when it comes to her. In my world of NASCAR there are drivers that have been around for 20 plus years and some that have only been around a few. I don't care how long someone has been the face of NASCAR. It means nothing to me. When I compare one to another I look at the stats. I don't care if they are married with 3 kids, two dogs, an SUV and an in ground pool and the other driver is single and drives a 3 year old truck. It's the stats.

My longstanding point of view is the same as I stated earlier. If she were a he we'd have never heard about this win. Get over it.

Well, Carl Edwards did go on the cover of Mens Health with no shirt on, but showing off muscle is what that mag is for!

[bears9]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Well, Carl Edwards did go on the cover of Mens Health with no shirt on, but showing off muscle is what that mag is for!

True, but that what the SI swimsuit issue is for.

Carl also did ESPN mag with no shirt.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Well, Carl Edwards did go on the cover of Mens Health with no shirt on, but showing off muscle is what that mag is for!

Agreed but among race fans I think his back flip is far more famous than his muscles ... and Oh yeah .... he has far more wins !!!

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Agreed but among race fans I think his back flip is far more famous than his muscles ... and Oh yeah .... he has far more wins !!!

Very true about the wins! But I'm surprised at how many folks know about his fitness habits. But that may be a by-product of his winning.

Folks tend to be more curious about the winners than they are about folks that don't win!

Something to think about!

[LSC9901]

Also true about the wins and the publics curiosity ....... but she just got her first win. Lets face it, everyone has run with the fact that she is a woman in a male dominated sport. That alone does not make her good.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Also true about the wins and the publics curiosity ....... but she just got her first win. Lets face it, everyone has run with the fact that she is a woman in a male dominated sport. That alone does not make her good.

Makes her a better racer than woman who have come before her...etc...

this is sad...

Jackie Robinson comes in (who was a darn good player) late into baseball (28 at the time) complies a career that was not all that bad, but equal to many none Hall of Famers...one MVP, one batting title, steals some bases and gets a .311 avg lifetime...and he is a Hall of Famer over guys with similar type careers Roger Maris (2 MVPs) Dale Murphy (2 MVPs)...and why?...a lot more to do with the fact that he breaks a barrier and endures a lot of flak that others don't have to play with etc...in short, we honor the man, retire his number all over creation etc, etc, etc, because he was a first...Girl comes along in a boys sport...races well with them, wins a race against...goes where no girl has gone before...and we say, "Yeah but"...Sad...totally sad...

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Makes her a better racer than woman who have come before her...etc...

this is sad...

Jackie Robinson comes in (who was a darn good player) late into baseball (28 at the time) complies a career that was not all that bad, but equal to many none Hall of Famers...one MVP, one batting title, steals some bases and gets a .311 avg lifetime...and he is a Hall of Famer over guys with similar type careers Roger Maris (2 MVPs) Dale Murphy (2 MVPs)...and why?...a lot more to do with the fact that he breaks a barrier and endures a lot of flak that others don't have to play with etc...in short, we honor the man, retire his number all over creation etc, etc, etc, because he was a first...Girl comes along in a boys sport...races well with them, wins a race against...goes where no girl has gone before...and we say, "Yeah but"...Sad...totally sad...

Agreed. I just don't get the Danica, JPM, hate either.

Like Danica said on Wind Tunnel after the win, "there isn't much I can say to my detractors. Folks who don't like me just never will. Al I can do is race".

Now that isn't verbatim, but it's close.

[Lefty Noob]

Well, Goth, maybe it's got something to do with the fact that Danica isn't the first female driver, or even the first female IndyCar driver. So you'd have to compare, let's say, Janet Guthrie (first woman to compete in the Indy 500 in 1977; placed 9th in the race the following year) to Jackie Robinson. Yeah, Danica has become the first female to win, and she deserves credit for that (even if some may argue that the field was watered down, and even if the endless media hype surrounding her because of her looks drives some of us nuts). But let's save the Jackie Robinson comparisons for the ladies who deserve them; those that actually broke the barrier.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Well, Goth, maybe it's got something to do with the fact that Danica isn't the first female driver, or even the first female IndyCar driver. So you'd have to compare, let's say, Janet Guthrie (first woman to compete in the Indy 500 in 1977; placed 9th in the race the following year) to Jackie Robinson. Yeah, Danica has become the first female to win, and she deserves credit for that (even if some may argue that the field was watered down, and even if the endless media hype surrounding her because of her looks drives some of us nuts). But let's save the Jackie Robinson comparisons for the ladies who deserve them; those that actually broke the barrier.

Why?...Isn't see a cut above them?...and can't we honor Hammer Hank Aaron without taking away from Jackie Robinson?...and the girl is taking flak for being different, just like Robinson did...why can't I compare?

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Agreed. I just don't get the Danica, JPM, hate either.

Like Danica said on Wind Tunnel after the win, "there isn't much I can say to my detractors. Folks who don't like me just never will. Al I can do is race".

Now that isn't verbatim, but it's close.

I guess I shouldn't blame the woman for using every tool available to her to get press attention (i.e. the GoDaddy commercials and the photo mag spreads), but there's still something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I don't *hate* her per se, but I've long thought she got attention that she didn't deserve, and was stealing the spotlight from better, more deserving competitors for reasons that had nothing to do with driving talent. But she's got a win now, not to mention 29 top tens in 50 starts... so I guess it's time to cut her a break. At least now she's getting attention she deserves.

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Why?...Isn't see a cut above them?...and can't we honor Hammer Hank Aaron without taking away from Jackie Robinson?...and the girl is taking flak for being different, just like Robinson did...why can't I compare?

All I'm saying is, by your analogy, Janet Guthrie would be Jackie Robinson and Danica Patrick would be Hank Aaron. Guthrie/Robinson broke the barrier in their sport and had some success, while Patrick/Aaron are taking it to the next level while still facing scrutiny because of their differences.

Not that I believe Danica in any way legitimately compares to Hammerin' Hank. Not yet, anyway. Maybe in time.