[ThePundit]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

More consistent?...are you mad?...the man has 9 straight years of over +26 TD, +3700 yard years...his QB rating is through the roof...he is the model of consistency...now that the Colts never had much of a D until now is another story...but over the past decade you can't get more consistent then Peyton...the man never has an off year...

I totally agree with Gotham. So the people who say that Brady is better than Manning are telling me that if they were starting a team from scratch, they would rather have Brady? In my opinion, that nuts.

And let's switch Vinatierri and Vanderjagt those last few years and Manning may be the guy with 3 rings and Brady would have 1, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Nuke]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

Yup. And he wants to prove that he's capable of overcoming that challenge.



Where have I said that he wasn't?

Nah! You're cool WhiskeyTango!!! I'm just messin' with ya! Peyton was one of the greatest before he had the ring in my view and now his status has just elevated. He is probably the greatest quarterback of our generation. I mean he IS the NFL. He's all over commercials, sets a great example on and off the field and is working on a cure for cancer. Ok, not sure about the third one. As for Manning vs. Brady? I just don't know because Brady won those Superbowls with Antwoain Smith as his runningback hence he had no running game. That really impresses me on Brady's part. Plus Givens and Branch can't compare whatsover to Harrison and Wayne. Manning vs. Brady? I have to think about that one guys.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Nuke

Nah! You're cool WhiskeyTango!!! I'm just messin' with ya! Peyton was one of the greatest before he had the ring in my view and now his status has just elevated. He is probably the greatest quarterback of our generation. I mean he IS the NFL. He's all over commercials, sets a great example on and off the field and is working on a cure for cancer. Ok, not sure about the third one. As for Manning vs. Brady? I just don't know because Brady won those Superbowls with Antwoain Smith as his runningback hence he had no running game. That really impresses me on Brady's part. Plus Givens and Branch can't compare whatsover to Harrison and Wayne. Manning vs. Brady? I have to think about that one guys.

Ah now you are wishy-washy...stay the course...Manning over Brady...say it with me...Manning over Brady...Manning...

[Notorious C.L.E.]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

You say he has fallen short...And I say, he (like Favre) was trying to make something happen when his team was not up to par...I rather take that type of QB over a game manager any day...not to say that Brady falls under the game manager category...but Brady is more a product of a syatem...I doubt he would be as successful away from New England, whiel I think Peyton could play anywhere...

But while they were "trying to make things happen" they ended up costing their teams the game. You can spin it anyway you want, but the history backs it up.

How exactly is Brady a product of the system? That's ridiculous. Who made him, Bill Belichick? He isn't an offensive mind at all. In fact, there a plenty better offensive minds and playcallers than him. Charlie Weis? He never experienced great success with anyone outside Brady in the NFL. Why do you doubt he would be successful away from New England? He has never had more than a slightly above average receiver and won a Super Bowl with Antoine Smith as his running back. What you see in New England is Tom Brady working his magic, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Highly doubt it...there is a reason one went in the 1st round and one in the 6th...Brady is good no doubt, but his success is more a measure of what New England built...talent wise and the ability to call a game would fall to Manning...they are about evens up in the ability to come from behind etc...

I don't think though it would be close at all...its like when Elway was on his way to losing 3 Super Bowls...all GMs still drooled for him...

There is a reason Ryan Leaf went in the first round too. He was a great prospect with attractive physical tools. I think we all know how that turned out. One cannot equate draft position to NFL success level. Brady had his flaws, mainly the lack of a strong arm; however, he worked on it and improved it.

Talent wise Manning would probably have it. Ability to call a game is about even. Clutch factor goes to Brady hands down.

And all GM's (except Scott Pioli) drool over Peyton Manning. However, they all drool over Tom Brady too, so what's your point?

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

And let's switch Vinatierri and Vanderjagt those last few years and Manning may be the guy with 3 rings and Brady would have 1, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Great point. Perhaps Vinatieri should be the immortal MVP. He's already a Hall of Fame kicker at this point.

When he missed that FG in the middle of the game last weekend, I was a bit shocked.

[Notorious C.L.E.]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

I totally agree with Gotham. So the people who say that Brady is better than Manning are telling me that if they were starting a team from scratch, they would rather have Brady? In my opinion, that nuts.

And let's switch Vinatierri and Vanderjagt those last few years and Manning may be the guy with 3 rings and Brady would have 1, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Why is that nuts? Both are comparable talents. Brady is a maestro at doing more with less. He has a worse offensive line, receivers, and running game. Not saying Peyton can't do it, but Brady has proven it.

Switching Vinatieri and Vanderjagt wouldn't neccesarily mean switching rings. Vanderjagt's poor kicking only cost them one game, one in which Peyton Manning played poor in as well.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Notorious C.L.E.

But while they were "trying to make things happen" they ended up costing their teams the game. You can spin it anyway you want, but the history backs it up.

How exactly is Brady a product of the system? That's ridiculous. Who made him, Bill Belichick? He isn't an offensive mind at all. In fact, there a plenty better offensive minds and playcallers than him. Charlie Weis? He never experienced great success with anyone outside Brady in the NFL. Why do you doubt he would be successful away from New England? He has never had more than a slightly above average receiver and won a Super Bowl with Antoine Smith as his running back. What you see in New England is Tom Brady working his magic, not the other way around.



There is a reason Ryan Leaf went in the first round too. He was a great prospect with attractive physical tools. I think we all know how that turned out. One cannot equate draft position to NFL success level. Brady had his flaws, mainly the lack of a strong arm; however, he worked on it and improved it.

Talent wise Manning would probably have it. Ability to call a game is about even. Clutch factor goes to Brady hands down.

And all GM's (except Scott Pioli) drool over Peyton Manning. However, they all drool over Tom Brady too, so what's your point?

Man what NFL have you been watching?...certainly not the one where Peyton comes back from three scores down and 4 minutes to play against the Buccaneers...or his winning drive this year against New England...how does Brady win the clutch factor hands down???...hands down...I mean not even 'edges him out"...you go way out on that limp and go with "hands down"...really?...like I said, if Peyton were to walk on water next you guys would say he can't fly...

And you are telling me that given a choice of the two, GMs would rate Brady a toss up with Manning???...oh please...there is a word for that statement...the word is "delusional"...no GM would pass over Manning to get to Brady...

and while Brady may have won with Smith in the backfield, he also won with a Defense that Indy has never had...so yes, his Super Bowl victories are a product of what New England put together over time...he did not carry the team on his back, nor has he been asked to do it, like Peyton has gotten asked since he got into the league...finally after 9 years my boy got some help...

As for trying to make something happen...at least it presents a chance to win...which is more than a QB who manages the game would do...Are you really saying you rather have a guy who doesn't try to make something happen to try to win???...come on get real...give me the QB that is going to do everything he can to win...not the guy who plays good enough to get you beat by a point or two...

I guess I could make my point til I am blue in the face...but if you can't see who the better QB is by now...who am I to get in the way of a good delusion...carry on my man...

[Notorious C.L.E.]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Man what NFL have you been watching?...certainly not the one where Peyton comes back from three scores down and 4 minutes to play against the Buccaneers...or his winning drive this year against New England...how does Brady win the clutch factor hands down???...hands down...I mean not even 'edges him out"...you go way out on that limp and go with "hands down"...really?...like I said, if Peyton were to walk on water next you guys would say he can't fly...

Tom Brady has twenty-four career fourth quarter comebacks and has engineered drive after drive when it has counted in seven years. Peyton Manning has ten career fourth quarter comebacks and has one hallmark drive that is stuck in everyone's mind in nine years. I don't think it is going out on a limb at all.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

And you are telling me that given a choice of the two, GMs would rate Brady a toss up with Manning???...oh please...there is a word for that statement...the word is "delusional"...no GM would pass over Manning to get to Brady...

Nice ad hominem argument, really bolsters your point of view.

Show me the verifiable fact that no general manager would pass over Manning. Until you find me concrete evidence, your claims are baseless.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

and while Brady may have won with Smith in the backfield, he also won with a Defense that Indy has never had...so yes, his Super Bowl victories are a product of what New England put together over time...he did not carry the team on his back, nor has he been asked to do it, like Peyton has gotten asked since he got into the league...finally after 9 years my boy got some help...

Yes, Indianapolis has never had a great defense. But, they have played well enough for them to win still. Case and point: 20-6 loss against New England in the divisional playoffs.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

As for trying to make something happen...at least it presents a chance to win...which is more than a QB who manages the game would do...Are you really saying you rather have a guy who doesn't try to make something happen to try to win???...come on get real...give me the QB that is going to do everything he can to win...not the guy who plays good enough to get you beat by a point or two...

Are you insinuating that Brady falls into the latter category? If so, THAT is delusional.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

I guess I could make my point til I am blue in the face...but if you can't see who the better QB is by now...who am I to get in the way of a good delusion...carry on my man...

Ditto.