[Lefty Noob]

Not to dig up this old chestnut, but Biggio just added to his resume - he collected hit #3,056 of his career, moving him past Rickey Henderson and into sole possesson of 20th place on the all-time career hits list. So does that change anyone's mind about whether he's a Hall of Famer or not? I mean, the guy is one of the 20 top hitters of all-time now.

[ThePundit]

I don't care what his numbers say. This guy was never even the best player on his team. I'm sorry, he is not a Hall of Famer. An excellent player, yes? But GREAT? No.

[JackAigner]

Nope - Biggio was greater than Bagwell in a number of seasons and one of the greatest in the National League during the 90s. There's just no way around it.

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by JackAigner

Nope - Biggio was greater than Bagwell in a number of seasons and one of the greatest in the National League during the 90s. There's just no way around it.

Like I said last year (and that was before he had 3,000 hits), he's a hall of famer. He was great at multiple positions and has the #s to get in.

[ThePundit]

Fellas, fellas, come now....You keep saying he has "the numbers" to go in. Let's look at them a little closer, year by year.

Craig Biggio - Houston Astros - Career Statistics - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

In 20 years, he only hit over 300, 3 times, averaged 59 RBI's per year, averaged 14 homers a year, 92 runs scored which is good.

But as you see he was no where near a great player.

You're going to put him into the same hall as let's say George Brett for example who played the same amount of time and hit over 300 11 times, averaged 75 RBIS, won MVP, including a .390 season.

George Brett Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

Sorry but no way is Biggio a HOF.

[EmpireWF]

Here's my case for Biggio....

4 Gold Gloves (2B)
7 All-Star Appearances
2x Leader in NL in Runs
3000+ Hits
2 HBP away from tying the All-Time Record
291 HRs (and counting, I guess)
1175 RBIs


Barry Larkin who is a HOF SS has 12 ASG, 1 MVP, 2340 Hits, 198 HR, 960 RBI

Paul Molitor, a HOFer, has 3319 hits, 234 HR, 1307 RBI, 7 ASG, 1 W.S. MVP, lead league in Runs 3x and led league in Hits 3x.

[JackAigner]

George Brett averaged all of those RBIs because he batted in the middle of the order most of his career. Biggio would have driven in the same amount of runs had he not led off most of his. That's obvious. Heck, Biggio averaged more RBIs than Rickey Henderson, and I don't think anyone is going to question his HOF credentials. Additionally, batting average just isn't valued as highly anymore. Their OBP is nearly the same, high during their peaks, tailing off later - and people don't ever intentionally walk or pitch around the leadoff man. Biggio hit nearly as many home runs and doubles and stole more bases. They were bothI don't know why we decided to compare these two, but I (and guys like Bill James and Rob Neyer) would give Brett a slight edge here, not a large one. They were both kinda similar, actually - guys who would leave everything on the field and who played the game the right way. Biggio's fielding was definitely superior, though.

[ThePundit]

Empire & Jack: You keep comparing total numbers. It's this type of logic that put Don Sutton in the HOF. Some guys are good players who compile some decent stats when it's all said and done.

You give George Brett a slight edge over Biggio?

George Brett and Ricky Henderson are Hall of Famers because they were GREAT dominant players. These guys struck fear into their opponents when they were at bat. I've seen George Brett get intentionally walked with nobody on base. I've seen an opposing team play 4 outfielders on him.

Craig Biggio struck fear in nobody. Sure, he was a good leadoff hitter who you would have rather kept off base. But if you tell me he wasn't much different than Ricky Henderson or George Brett, I guess there's no arguing with you.

The HOF fame is for - the GREAT player. Not the very good player who has compiled good numbers.

[JackAigner]

"I wish you the best of luck as your playing career comes to an end," the letter concluded, "and I look forward to our paths crossing in the very near future and again, several years from now, in Cooperstown."
-Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig, in a letter to Biggio


I will argue, today and probably for many years, that Biggio is not only one of the 10 greatest second basemen in major league history, but one of the five or six greatest.
I'm reasonably confident in saying that Biggio was not as great as Morgan or Hornsby or Collins. He might not have been as great as Lajoie, and he was not, during his peak years, as great as Jackie Robinson during Robinson's peak years. Perhaps we might even find a place for the terribly underrated Roberto Alomar in this conversation. I would not, on the other hand, be at all confident in saying that anybody else was greater than Biggio. I challenge anybody reading this to find another second baseman, somebody not mentioned in the paragraph just above this one, with a claim to being greater than Biggio. Frankly, I don't think you can do it. And if that's not a Hall of Famer, I'm a dump truck.
-Rob Neyer

Today's goodbye isn't final. At some point, he's almost certain to return to the Astros as a front office executive, coach or manager. First, though, he wants to be a full-time husband and father.

He'll still come around Minute Maid Park, and there'll be another big celebration when he'll be a first-ballot inductee into the Hall of Fame in 2013.
-Houston Chronicle columnist Richard Justice

[legend]

Charlie Gehringer, Rod Carew, Tony Lazerri, and Ryne Sandberg were all better second baseman than Biggio, but I still gotta put him in the Hall of Fame. He was a lead-off hitter guys. And don't try to compare him to Henderson, because who else compares to him as a leadoff hitter?

[ThePundit]

Well you Biggio Guys are going to get your way because he'll probably get in. The fact that he's going to get in before Jim Rice is laughable.

[JackAigner]

The laughable thing here is that Jim Rice is mentioned in the same sentence as Biggio. Jim Rice couldn't do half the things Craig Biggio did.

"I wanna know who's doubting it now. They obviously don't know baseball."
-Brad Ausmus, asked about Biggio's Hall of Fame chances.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

Well you Biggio Guys are going to get your way because he'll probably get in. The fact that he's going to get in before Jim Rice is laughable.

Laughable?...no man...nothing against Rice...but Biggio was an All-Star at three different positions...plus he was a table setter not an RBI guy...it's evens up...come back from the 70's...

[ThePundit]

Rice was the most dominant offensive player or close to it for about a 10-year period in the American League.

You guys just see the HOF diffently than I do. I think it should be a place for the great dominant player.

You guys see it as a place for compilers of stats.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

Rice was the most dominant offensive player or close to it for about a 10-year period in the American League.

You guys just see the HOF diffently than I do. I think it should be a place for the great dominant player.

You guys see it as a place for compilers of stats.

With all due respect to rice...whom I like...he spent his career hitting at friendly Fenway, which added to his stats...dis dominace also was not a decade long...and most of his better years were from 1975-1980...

A much stronger case can be made for two time MVP Dale Murphy...and you do not see him going in...

All of which has nothing to do with Biggio's merit.