[ThePundit]

How dumb and arrogant can Wayne Gretzky be? My guess is that Gretzky himself never placed a bet or asked anyone to place a bet for him. However, I would "bet" the ranch that he knew about what Tochett was doing and that his wife was placing large wagers. So at minimum, Gretzky is guilty of absolute stupidity for letting it go on.

And now they allegedly have Gretky on wiretaps, trying to cover up for his wife. I wouldn't be shocked if Bettman made an example of him and suspended him for the rest of the year and who could blame him? Hockey has enough problems without this kind of stuff. And to think Mike Milbury was considering Tochett to replace the fired Steve Stirling as coach of my Islanders (see my next thread).

[EmpireWF]

The NHL isn't going to do anything to Gretzky. He didn't place any bets and most likely, knew that the gambling was going on. Should he have told his fellow coach and great friend to stop? Hell yeah. For godsake, the Coyotes' GM even placed a bet with Tochett. Nevertheless, the league can't do much to the Great One for not saying anything.

Tochett will be gone. I'm more interested in who the six current NHL players are who placed bets in the sting...and what sports they bet on.

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

If we knew for sure that none of the hockey players that bet actually bet on hockey, would any of you care about this? Because I wouldn't in the slightest, and I feel like I'm the only one.

[Lefty Noob]

I'm with you CoBS, but it does smack a bit of the whole Pete Rose saga.

Don't know if anyone here watches or listens to "Mike & Mike" on ESPN2 or ESPN Radio, but they basically had a lot of people write and call in saying, pretty much, "Who Cares?" Now, I'm curious, is this a sign that people in this country don't consider gambling a big deal, or are they just apathetic because it involves hockey players?

[GigEmAgs]

I believe it's partially because people don't consider gambling a big deal. I think the other factor is that we, as a nation, have gotten so used to athletes misbehaving that we just accept it as a given. They get away with a hell of a lot, because they can afford to -- just like top businessmen. Yes, it's considered unethical (even illegal) to bet on yourself, just as it is to use insider tips to profit on stocks. But they can get away with it if you can afford really good lawyers. I think it's more of a case of "outrage fatigue," if you want to call it that. Why bother getting outraged anymore, if nothing's going to happen to the perpetrators? Either that, or we've finally accepted that pro athletes are the American royalty, and we'll let them get away with whatever in order to have something to read about in the scandal sheets.

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

"Now, I'm curious, is this a sign that people in this country don't consider gambling a big deal, or are they just apathetic because it involves hockey players?"


For me, it's the gambling issue. I mean, I understand that it's illegal, but I still don't care - unless someone can show me how this gambling ring hurt innocent people. It's much more important to me, personally, to see Kenneth Lay punished for what he did than Rick Tocchet.

[Lefty Noob]

"Outrage fatigue" -- I've got to remember that one. Sums it up beautifully. Consciously or unconsciously, we all mentally gague this scandle against Enron and against some of the other major controversies we've seen as late. Pete Rose already proved to us that these guys aren't infalible, and that athletes might just be prone to gambling. There's no shock value here, and it really doesn't affect the common man one iota. Heck, it isn't even a sport most of us give a rat's rear end about. So we just sort of collectively shrug our shoulders and go on with our daily lives. So it seems to me, at least.

[ThePundit]

Yeah - if these guys went to Vegas or make a couple of bets in the off season, its not a big deal at all.

BUT...this is different...What you have here is an assitant coach of the Phoenix Cyotes getting mixed up with ORGANIZED CRIME in a pretty big way and the coach of that team knowing about it..This is the point..

Even if all these bets were harmless wagers on the NFL playoffs -this is too slippery a slope. If Janet Jones had to bet, why not just go to Vegas and bet on the NFL games? Then nobody would care.

But to get involved in the Tochet gambling ring is beyond idiotic. Assuming it can be proven the Gretzky knew about what Tochet was doing, Gretzky should be suspended the rest of the year. Now THAT would get a message across.

[ThePundit]

Okay, for those of you who think that suspending Gretzky for the year would be too tough, how about this? He's chained down to a chair and has to watch all the remaining Knick games this year.

[Lefty Noob]

Sorry, Pundit, but the Constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment and, well, Knicks basketball certainly qualifies this year.

The question is - how involved was Gretzky in all of this. Did he know about it? Seems like he did, hence his appearance on the wiretap tapes. Did he help facilitate it in any way? Is he at least an accessory or accomplice? Was his wife actually the one doing the betting, or was she placing the wagers on his behalf to try and keep his nose clean should they get caught? Quite frankly, I have no idea. It'll be interesting to see where this investigation leads.

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

Okay, for those of you who think that suspending Gretzky for the year would be too tough, how about this? He's chained down to a chair and has to watch all the remaining Knick games this year.

Judging from the few Coyotes games I've seen this year, his current job isn't too far off from that sort of torture.

[GigEmAgs]

In reply to CoBS, I have to admit it's a little nebulous whether or not that kind of betting can hurt innocent people. Was he betting on the Peyotes? I suppose if you're betting on your own team, you might be just a bit tempted to do something to tip the balance in your favor -- at least if you're betting against the team. (Though I suppose that you can also tip it in your favor if you're betting on the team by pumping your guys up with steroids or ephedrine or, heaven forbid, finasteride, which the IIOC apparently believes is a performance enhancing drug. But I digress.).

Now, if you do something illicitly to affect your team's chances, especially if you play to lose, isn't that betraying your fanbase? And ultimately, isn't that hurting your fans and the sport? Not to mention how the growth of organized crime can have unforeseen results, which is, admittedly, getting a little far afield.

Kind of off the topic, but a little on: I know they're not supposed to do it here, but aren't some British athletes, like jockeys, allowed to bet on themselves? I seem to recall reading about something like that.

[EmpireWF]

Now the reports coming out say the wiretap occured after Gretzky spoke to police who came to his house to speak with his wife. If that's the case, those wiretaps are meaningless.

Again, I'm more interested in who the current players (I believe six of 'em) are who were involved in the gambling ring.