[Quality88]

LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Supporters rallied around a Kentucky high school football coach ahead of his first court date on unprecedented criminal charges for the heat-related death of a player during practice.
David Jason Stinson was scheduled for arraignment in Louisville on Monday after weekend vigils by students, players, faculty and others in support of the head football coach from Pleasure Ridge Park High School. A grand jury Thursday indicted Stinson on one count of reckless homicide for the death of 15-year-old Max Gilpin.
The sophomore offensive lineman died three days after collapsing during a sweltering practice Aug. 20.
Heat exposure deaths have occurred occasionally in all levels of football and the cases have led to numerous lawsuits. However, it appears a coach has never been criminally charged in the deaths.
Stinson's attorney has said the coach is innocent. Stinson, who has been reassigned to non-teaching and non-coaching duties pending the outcome of the case, has said he is heartbroken.
Two public rallies were held over the weekend in support of Stinson, one Saturday at the coach's home and the other Sunday at the football field of the south Louisville school.
At Stinson's home, the embattled coach stepped outside and told dozens of supporters he had lost "a boy that meant the world to me" and would carry the burden for the rest of his life.
A day later, hundreds of students, coaches, players, faculty members and well-wishers huddled in shivering temperatures on the school's football field in support of Stinson.
The heavily bundled crowd spent over an hour hailing Stinson as a man of integrity. Several people brought homemade signs while two students wore sweat shirts that read "We believe in our Mr. Incredible" on the front and "Pray for Coach Stinson" on the back.
A banner near the end zone read: "The PRP family supports our coaches." Some supporters wept quietly during the 90-minute gathering.
Monica Stinson, the coach's wife, told the group she and her husband have been overwhelmed by the outpouring from the community.
"The upcoming months are going to be the hardest," Monica Stinson said while fighting back tears. She later shared an embrace with Lois Gilpin, Max's stepmother.
Jeff Gilpin and Michele Crockett, Max's divorced parents, told The Courier-Journal in a story published Sunday that they want to find out what happened during that sweltering afternoon when their son died so that future tragedies can be avoided.
The parents have jointly filed a lawsuit against the PRP coaching staff, accusing them of negligence and "reckless disregard."

ESPN Coach to be arraigned in player's death -ESPN Rise FOOTBALL

[Quality88]

This is a big thing in Louisville right now. People are upset at the grand jury indictment. They indicted him on the testimony of one cop. No one else testified and they refused to hear the coach. The underground says they are just out to get him. Witness statements don't jive with each other, and it seems all the players are behind their coach. This is a big thing in sports period. The whole sports world is watchin this right now.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

This is a big thing in Louisville right now. People are upset at the grand jury indictment. They indicted him on the testimony of one cop. No one else testified and they refused to hear the coach. The underground says they are just out to get him. Witness statements don't jive with each other, and it seems all the players are behind their coach. This is a big thing in sports period. The whole sports world is watchin this right now.

Interesting story, Dustin. The only comments I feel I can make are completely anecdotal and thus of marginal relevance.
I know a couple of [HS football] coaches down here and back in 1985-88 when I was a Navy recruiter in Roanoke, VA I knew about all of the football and wrestling coaches in the area. There were a couple who I felt genuinely had the welfare of their charges at heart. But the majority I knew were self-centered, selfish, egotistical pseudo-jocks who would gladly put the welfare of their players at risk if it meant another touchdown. Don't get me started on what the wrestling coaches did to get their kids competing in a weight class below where they should have been.
This guy could well have been one of the really good guys but my personal experience leads me to think this could have been another case of a coach just trying to get one of "his boys" to "man up!"
But, bottom line is that I obviously don't know.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Interesting story, Dustin. The only comments I feel I can make are completely anecdotal and thus of marginal relevance.
I know a couple of [HS football] coaches down here and back in 1985-88 when I was a Navy recruiter in Roanoke, VA I knew about all of the football and wrestling coaches in the area. There were a couple who I felt genuinely had the welfare of their charges at heart. But the majority I knew were self-centered, selfish, egotistical pseudo-jocks who would gladly put the welfare of their players at risk if it meant another touchdown. Don't get me started on what the wrestling coaches did to get their kids competing in a weight class below where they should have been.
This guy could well have been one of the really good guys but my personal experience leads me to think this could have been another case of a coach just trying to get one of "his boys" to "man up!"
But, bottom line is that I obviously don't know.

Right now accordin to some folks I have spoken to (I live about 2 miles from the High School involved) the coach is a decent human bein and is pretty bad shaken up.

What has my attention is the fact that the coroner ruled the death a heat stroke. No autopsy performed. The parents of the boy that died didn't request one, and will not answer why they didn't. The parents complain about the school board not revealin anythin yet they are hiding things.

One more thing... Some witnesses claim the coaches denied them water breaks. From one person attendin the practice it sounds as if it was one of those deals were one or two players spoke right before they got a break and the coaches held another minute or two as a don't ask unless asked. I know about those, band instructor got us when I was in high school. I saw football coaches do the same manuever as well.

I'm waitin to see how this goes. I'm intrigued to see what info comes out of this as things go by.

[Bette]

Tragedy isnt the word for this. No matter how it turns out or whether the coach is guilty of negligence or not.
It also sounds like evidence is being suppressed.
Keep us updated Q.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Right now accordin to some folks I have spoken to (I live about 2 miles from the High School involved) the coach is a decent human bein and is pretty bad shaken up.

What has my attention is the fact that the coroner ruled the death a heat stroke. No autopsy performed. The parents of the boy that died didn't request one, and will not answer why they didn't. The parents complain about the school board not revealin anythin yet they are hiding things.

One more thing... Some witnesses claim the coaches denied them water breaks. From one person attendin the practice it sounds as if it was one of those deals were one or two players spoke right before they got a break and the coaches held another minute or two as a don't ask unless asked. I know about those, band instructor got us when I was in high school. I saw football coaches do the same manuever as well.

I'm waitin to see how this goes. I'm intrigued to see what info comes out of this as things go by.

This thread inspired me to do some research... All I can find out was the temp when the practice took place was in the 90's and the ME stated the kids cadaver temp was 107 when they punched him. That means at time of death it was probably a degree or two higher. That was probably the reason for no autopsy. I guess they chalked it up to "reasonable cause?" If it were my kid I imagine my lawyer would have wanted a good autopsy done.

Another think I found out was that last summer there were, as bet as I can determine, at least eight similar deaths on football practice fields. All were determined to be heat-related.

I'm sure the coach is a decent guy. But... I still believe these football coaches are a different breed and I don't, on a very general basis, have much use for them. (Crap! I bet I trod on a bunch of toes with that one! C'est l'vie.)

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

This thread inspired me to do some research... All I can find out was the temp when the practice took place was in the 90's and the ME stated the kids cadaver temp was 107 when they punched him. That means at time of death it was probably a degree or two higher. That was probably the reason for no autopsy. I guess they chalked it up to "reasonable cause?" If it were my kid I imagine my lawyer would have wanted a good autopsy done.

Another think I found out was that last summer there were, as bet as I can determine, at least eight similar deaths on football practice fields. All were determined to be heat-related.

I'm sure the coach is a decent guy. But... I still believe these football coaches are a different breed and I don't, on a very general basis, have much use for them. (Crap! I bet I trod on a bunch of toes with that one! C'est l'vie.)

The temp that day was 94 with a heat index near 100. Last report was his temp when arrivin at the Hospital was 107. You see how quick things are distorted... the local fish wrapper is the reason for the coach bein investigated and indicted. Everyone chalked it up to tragedy until the Courier-Journal reported witnesses sayin the coaches denied the players a water break. That's why I'm watchin this closely, I really want to know if they were bein bastards like the witnesses think they heard, or if they were bein dicks like I have witnessed before.

Another distortion is reports the boy was on creotine at the time of his death, and other reports he hadn't used it for a month before he died.

It's a bad situation no matter what. No good will come of this no matter what happens.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

However it turns out ( and we have had a death here at nearby UCF too recently...I believe)...I just don't want to see the following "All football practices will now be conducted in a climate control gym where the temp will hover at a chilly 68-70...players refusing to drink the minimum recommended daily amount of water will be released from the team."...

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

It's a bad situation no matter what. No good will come of this no matter what happens.

And there, my old friend, is the bottom line. It's a no win situation for everyone. The kid lost his life, the parents lost their kid, the coach has a massive blot on his reputation and the school.. Well, the whole thing happened under its watch and it is the one culpable, as far as I'm concerned, and ultimately the school district will lose megabucks it probably can ill afford to lose.

Ca-ca occurs.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

However it turns out ( and we have had a death here at nearby UCF too recently...I believe)...I just don't want to see the following "All football practices will now be conducted in a climate control gym where the temp will hover at a chilly 68-70...players refusing to drink the minimum recommended daily amount of water will be released from the team."...

That would worsen the situation... I don't know about everywhere else but in the Ohio Valley it gets pretty damn hot and the humidity amps it up and makes it worse.... sometimes unbearable and it's not much better at night when most games are played.

[Racer Duck]

I know it's not the same thing, but....

I played football in high school. we didn't even have A/C in the school, much less the gym (which we also didn't have for my freshman year.) School started on the Tuesday after Labor day and by then we'd been in pads in the morning and afternoon for 2-3 weeks, running laps, and hitting things (sometimes even each other). and the temp was hanging around a hundred the whole time. It's the hottest I've ever been in my life. but the coaches gave every player 3 salt tablets before practice and more when we felt we needed them. Gatorade hadn't been invented for another 20 years. we drank warm water out of a hose. as far as I know not one single kid died from heat anywhere in the state the whole time I was in high school.

even though our remedy for the heat back then was salt tablets and a warm water hose .. the primary thing we had going for us was we were "used to" the heat. I doubt this young man could say the same... And coaches today sometimes forget that heat conditioning is a dangerous situation that needs constant monitoring and awareness of the telltale signs of heat stroke and heat exhaustion. we got a speech from one of the coaches before every practice about the heat .. I doubt if it's done much today.

If you're wondering when I'm talking about .. I played sports in high school from 1956 to 1960. and we had "swamp coolers" at home. and a few years later I slept 3 feet under a 5 inch thick slab of steel that was painted black and set in the full sun day in and day out and received extra heat blasts from jet engines - and we didn't have A/C there either.

point is, your body can get used to lots of things. but when kids spend most of their time in an air conditioned environment then are thrust into a physically hot, stiffling hot, situation, their bodies react .. usually with serious consequences. but people are so used to their "comforts" that no one thinks about what can happen when you don't have those comforts .. and I'd be willing to bet 9 out of 10 people today can't tell you the difference between heat stroke and heat exhaustion or what to look for or how to treat them. and, yes, they can kill you.

I'm gonna be interested to see what comes of the trial, but my guess is most folks will be pointing the finger at the wrong culprit.

[Bette]

I think you are right RD.
You do get "conditioned" to temperatures. With air conditioning people say how did they stand the heat before they had air.
Simple. They were conditioned to it.