[Bob Tanner]

Any thoughts from you serious thinkers out there, on Paulson's government bailout address this morning (11/12/0?

[Bob Tanner]

If anyone out there wants to know where our tax money to GM "might" be going, feel free to explore the following link:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...gm_******.html

[simple simon]

i think my tax money can be used to bail me out

[Stoney]

Here is an idea...

Buy the majority of stock in these American Automakers since it trades in junk bond status. Grow the company and gradually sell off the stocks for a profit.Give each taxpayer a $25,000.00 voucher to buy a new hydrogen based American Made vehicle. This cleans up the enviornment and makes the roads safer. It frees up credit and saves [vehicle related] jobs as well moves the economy into a growth position. It also forces change in the market place so that we protect ourselves from corporate greed.

If Huyndai can sell a new midsized car for $13,988.00 so can GM who sells a comparably equipped car for $30,000.00 there is simply too much profit taking by shareholders.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

i think my tax money can be used to bail me out

How about this, Simon. Reduce your (and my) taxes to a level which sustains the government at a reasonable level, (read: amount needed to ensure our continued protection and to maintain the nation's infrastructure and to provide minimum assistance to those who are mentally or physically unable to care for themselves) and then let US (you, me and everyone else) use the money the government doesn't take from us to bail ourselves out?

Would you go along with that?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Here is an idea...

Buy the majority of stock in these American Automakers since it trades in junk bond status. Grow the company and gradually sell off the stocks for a profit.Give each taxpayer a $25,000.00 voucher to buy a new hydrogen based American Made vehicle. This cleans up the enviornment and makes the roads safer. It frees up credit and saves [vehicle related] jobs as well moves the economy into a growth position. It also forces change in the market place so that we protect ourselves from corporate greed.

If Huyndai can sell a new midsized car for $13,988.00 so can GM who sells a comparably equipped car for $30,000.00 there is simply too much profit taking by shareholders.

Hang on to something solid, Stoney. You might not like what I'm going to say...

First of all, I know of no practical, mass-produced hydrogen-powered vehicle. There are hybrids but they are cost prohibitive or extremely small and impractical. And this new Chevrolet Volt is a joke. Plus GM has recently admitted that the car will not make the company a profit (GM Does Not Expect to Profit from 2011 Chevrolet Volt | Green Blog & Discussion at Automobile Magazine)

Secondly, this isn't an American Automakers Bailout. It's a Ford, GM and Chrysler Bailout. I haven't heard of any cries for financial help from Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai, et. al.

Why are these companies making it and the old line American companies aren't? It's not the quality of product. It's been years since Detroit has turned out a noticeably inferior product.
It's not because Americans have become unpatriotic. A sizable number of Americans will buy American if they have a choice between equal products.
Some of the reason is the "sweetheart deals" various States made with the auto companies to build the factories in their State. The deal Alabama made with Mercedes to build the plant in Vance, AL would make your head spin.
But the main reason is profitability. Because of the deals the Big Three made with the Unions in the 50's and 60's, when there was no foreign competition and everyone thought the love affair with the automobile would go on forever, there is no longer room for necessary profit with Ford, GM and Chrysler. They pay retirement and health benefits which literally break the bank. Do you think it's an accident that the foreign companies build factories predominantly in Right to Work States?

The government then continues to do what it's always done, throw [our] money at the problem. They threw [our] money at the mortgage mess and that really helped, didn't it? I think the Dow has dropped around 1500 points since that was first announced??!!

Like you, I have thought of possible (and better) solutions as alternative to just blindly throwing [our] money at the problem. Here are two of mine:

• Give the auto makers and corresponding manufacturing companies, a three year moratorium on taxes on corporate taxes and capital gains taxes. After three years, reduce the afore mentioned taxes by 40% for a period of seven years. This would enable these companies to compete with the foreign competitors on a more level financial playing field. It would also encourage companies to not relocate overseas and possibly inspired some to have moved to return to our shores.

• Don't give the money to the auto makers. Instead, give a tax deduction of (pick a figure... $10,000 sounds good to me) if they buy a new Ford, Chrysler or GM vehicle. Maybe that $29,000 Ford Escape Hybrid might look a little more enticing if the bottom line were closer to $19,000?

Of course this would mean our Imperial Federal Government might have to tighten their belt a bit. So, what's the down side?

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Here is an idea...

Buy the majority of stock in these American Automakers since it trades in junk bond status. Grow the company and gradually sell off the stocks for a profit.Give each taxpayer a $25,000.00 voucher to buy a new hydrogen based American Made vehicle. This cleans up the enviornment and makes the roads safer. It frees up credit and saves [vehicle related] jobs as well moves the economy into a growth position. It also forces change in the market place so that we protect ourselves from corporate greed.

If Huyndai can sell a new midsized car for $13,988.00 so can GM who sells a comparably equipped car for $30,000.00 there is simply too much profit taking by shareholders.

It is my understanding that more than half of all revenue made by US Auto manufacturers goes into paying for pensions and insurance for workers that are no longer a part of the workforce. This is the result of labor unions forcing the automakers into bad business deals in years past by agreeing to these contracts that made it impossible for the long term growth of these companies. Corporate shareholders do take more than they deserve, but what they take is a drop in the bucket compared to those other costs.

[Stoney]

One thing I will point out the hydrogen adapter costs $700.00 installed and it doubles the gas milage of any vehicle. There are two mechanical and electrical engineers who have developed this technology right here in Yadkinville NC. It is available Exxon and other oil companies do not want this technology availabe to the masses and GM has a no-compete with Exxon on these. These two gentlemen have developed a totally hydrogen system that allows any car to run on water and it costs roughly 3-5K to install. The answers are out there...

I know these to be true because I have seen them with my own eyes.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Stoney

One thing I will point out the hydrogen adapter costs $700.00 installed and it doubles the gas milage of any vehicle. There are two mechanical and electrical engineers who have developed this technology right here in Yadkinville NC. It is available Exxon and other oil companies do not want this technology availabe to the masses and GM has a no-compete with Exxon on these. These two gentlemen have developed a totally hydrogen system that allows any car to run on water and it costs roughly 3-5K to install. The answers are out there...

I know these to be true because I have seen them with my own eyes.

I'll will gladly take your word for the hydrogen adapter, Stoney. I admit to knowing less than nothing about it and made my statements based solely on my available knowledge. They might be available in Yadkinville but, to my knowledge, they are virtually either unknown or unavailable in the other 49 States.

The fact that the knowledge of this advancement is being suppressed doesn't surprise me. I'm a firm believer in the Preston Tucker Theory on automobile advancement protectionism.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by desertrat

It is my understanding that more than half of all revenue made by US Auto manufacturers goes into paying for pensions and insurance for workers that are no longer a part of the workforce. This is the result of labor unions forcing the automakers into bad business deals in years past by agreeing to these contracts that made it impossible for the long term growth of these companies. Corporate shareholders do take more than they deserve, but what they take is a drop in the bucket compared to those other costs.

You're preaching to the choir here, D.R. Detroit sold its soul to the labour unions in the 50's and 60's and now we and our children all get to pay for it.

[Stoney]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I'll will gladly take your word for the hydrogen adapter, Stoney. I admit to knowing less than nothing about it and made my statements based solely on my available knowledge. They might be available in Yadkinville but, to my knowledge, they are virtually either unknown or unavailable in the other 49 States.

The fact that the knowledge of this advancement is being suppressed doesn't surprise me. I'm a firm believer in the Preston Tucker Theory on automobile advancement protectionism.

Call it the X-files the truth is out there. There are several different mechanisms available to the general public on these hydrogen adapters. I know a guy in Mobile Alabama has been doing it and another old codger in Sumpter SC. It is catching on quickly a gallon of water doubles your gas milage or the full conversion runs on water and baking soda. Just google some of this stuff. Quite frankly I'm suprised that NASCAR hasn't taken a serious look at this new technology.

[Robertdjr]

Where is this gonna end?

Three big city mayors asked the federal government Friday to use a portion of the $700 billion financial bailout to assist struggling cities.

The mayors sought help with their pension costs, infrastructure investment and cash-flow problems stemming from the global financial crisis.

The mayors—Michael Nutter of Philadelphia, Shirley Franklin of Atlanta and Phil Gordon of Phoenix—made their request in a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.

The three mayors proposed providing loans to help cities pay pension costs. They also want $50 billion in loans for investment in infrastructure, and additional one-year loans to cities unable to borrow cash because of the tight credit markets.

Mayors of Philadelphia, Phoenix seek bailout share

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

Where is this gonna end?
Mayors of Philadelphia, Phoenix seek bailout share

My friend, now that our Imperial Federal Government has decided to subsidize failure, it ain't gonna end. Not anytime soon, anyway.

Want a scary bit of news? Over the past year unemployment in the private sector has more than doubled. That's not exactly news, right? However, in the public (government) sector, employment is up 1.4%!? (RealClearMarkets - Articles - No Government Jobs Recession Yet)

The guy who wrote the referenced article thinks this figure is better than sex! What he neglects to tell us is that the government is NOT a profit-motivated business which contributes to the wealth of the country. It is a money-eating machine that does nothing but cost us money!

Imagine if every month your household spent more than you made. That, by its very nature,is the necessary role of government, it is designed to always overspend. If your household ran on that principle, what kind of retirement do you think you'd have?

So, by the author's own admission, the only thing in this country which is growing appreciatively is the sector which is costing us the most. No wonder everyone is begging for a bailout! I'm afraid we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

[Stoney]

The Federal government is like a lazy teenager. You can't get it to work when it does work it does less than a half ass job. It always is begging for money and complaining about how you don't do enough to help it achieve it's ambitions. It eats you out of house and home and disrespects you and back talks when you try to correct them. You are not allowed to smack them down without harsh penalties like jail. You can't reason with them because they think they know everything. They want the champagne lifestyle without the hard work it takes to get there. They are impossible to get rid of [even after 18] [Your spouse loves them and spoils them {people keep re-electing them}] and invades everything you do or hope to do. They always hang out with the wrong crowd getting into trouble all hours of the night. They sneak out of your house leaving you exposed to unknown dangers. They roll their eyes when you try to reprimand their behavior and say "What ever" or say the man is bringing them down. They care about what their friends [Europeans] have to say and not what you [The Taxpayer] have to say. Then there is the unexpected costs the court costs for reckless driving & DUI charges and your insurance [taxes] skyrockets [Sound like a bailout?]. They don't have any sense of duty or honor and don't want to serve our country. They either don't work or fail to show up for the job that you got them [or elected them to] or quit their job because it interferes with their social life. They don't care if they embarass you. All they want to do is party and fight with each other. They lie cheat and steal to support thier habits or simply be destructive because you refuse to give them what they want [global warming taxes anyone?]. Then there is the drug use and the thought that their social life is more important than the welfare of the family. [all politicians] They constantly bring thier drama into your life at the most inappropiate moments. They expect us to fix all the messes they create [like an unwanted pregnancy and raising another baby {Corporate Bailout}] and not hold them responsible or listen to them lie and blame somebody else as to why certain problems exsist. They are selfish narssiscistic self absorbed abominations that need to have a severe dose of reality before it is too late.

Bottom line neither appreciates us and both abuse us until we stand up and do something about it.