[DOF_power]

2008 FORMULA 1 FUJI TELEVISION JAPANESE GRAND PRIX

Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Pts

1 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 67 1:30:21.892 4 10
2 4 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 67 +5.2 secs 6 8
3 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 67 +6.4 secs 2 6
4 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 67 +20.5 secs 12 5
5 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 67 +23.7 secs 7 4
6 15 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 67 +39.2 secs 9 3
7 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 67 +46.1 secs 5 2
8 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 67 +50.8 secs 13 1
9 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 67 +54.1 secs 16
10 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 67 +59.0 secs 10
11 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 67 +62.0 secs 15
12 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 67 +78.9 secs 1
13 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 66 +1 Lap 17
14 16 Jenson Button Honda 66 +1 Lap 18
15 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 66 +1 Lap 14
Ret 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 21 Gearbox 20
Ret 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 16 Engine 3
Ret 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 8 Puncture 19
Ret 12 Timo Glock Toyota 6 Accident damage 8
Ret 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 0 Accident 11

Bourdais was initially classified sixth, but had 25 seconds added to his race time for a collision with Massa.

[DOF_power]

Penalties put Hamilton and Massa out of contention at Fuji

The two main rivals for the 2008 drivers’ title scored just one point between them in Sunday’s Japanese Grand Prix, as both were hit by penalties early in the race. Ferrari’s Felipe Massa finished eighth, while championship leader Lewis Hamilton managed only 12th for McLaren.

Polesitter Hamilton was penalised for forcing Kimi Raikkonen wide into Turn One at the start. The Ferrari got a better getaway and was in front when Hamilton jinked right, almost hitting team mate Heikki Kovalainen in the process, and then locked up under braking. He understeered wide, flat-spotting his front tyres and leaving Raikkonen nowhere to go, dropping the Finn to seventh place.

Hamilton also lost places, but quickly resumed his Ferrari battle, this time with Massa for P5. That ended in tears on lap 2, when the Brazilian dived down the inside at the chicane, running over the kerbs and tipping his rival into a spin. Stewards deemed Massa to have caused an avoidable collision and both men subsequently received drive-through penalties for their respective misdemeanours.

That wasn’t the end of the controversy for Massa. He also made contact late in the race with Sebastian Bourdais, just after the Toro Rosso driver had exited the pitlane. The pair went side by side around Turn One, making contact and and putting Massa into a spin, from which he quickly recovered. Stewards decided to investigate the incident after the race.

Speaking to reporters, Hamilton admitted he had been at fault at the start. Coupled with retirement for Kovalainen after suspected engine problems, it meant McLaren failed to score for only the second time this season, handing the constructors’ championship lead back to Ferrari - who saw Raikkonen recover to come home third - and allowing third-placed BMW Sauber to close to within eight points.

[DOF_power]

Bourdais loses points over Massa clash

Toro Rosso’s Sebastien Bourdais has had 25 seconds added to his Japanese Grand Prix race time as penalty for making contact with Ferrari’s Felipe Massa. The stewards’ decision drops Bourdais from sixth to 10th in the results and elevates Massa to seventh.

Bourdais was rejoining the race after his second pit stop on lap 50 when Massa attempted to pass around the outside at Turn One. The pair made contact, tipping the Brazilian into a spin. Massa subsequently continued, finishing in eighth place.

The penalty means Bourdais’ team mate Sebastian Vettel moves up to sixth place ahead of Massa, while Red Bull’s Mark Webber picks up a point for eighth. It also means Lewis Hamilton’s championship lead over Massa is cut to just five points.

[Bob Tanner]

I didn't get in from attending a night at one of our local tracks until way after midnight and I missed the race. But, DOF's report raises a question.

It seems as though F1, FIA or whomever, is really jealous about drivers making mistakes while competing? Getting Massa for "an avoidable collision" just seems "strange" to me. They're racing! Any contact, including probably 75% of contact caused by mechanical malfunction, is avoidable.

I guess comparing the F1 we see to racing here in the States would be like comparing a prize fight under Marques of Queensbury Rules to a barroom brawl? Or maybe a dance at the local Elks Lodge to a performance to Lords of the Dance?

Sometimes I find it a tad difficult to relate to the thinking behind F1. Maybe it's just me?

I previously stated that I thought the F1 championship was Hamilton's to lose and I believe said that Hamilton is prone to stupid mistakes. I guess we're both correct, eh?

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I didn't get in from attending a night at one of our local tracks until way after midnight and I missed the race. But, DOF's report raises a question.

It seems as though F1, FIA or whomever, is really jealous about drivers making mistakes while competing? Getting Massa for "an avoidable collision" just seems "strange" to me. They're racing! Any contact, including probably 75% of contact caused by mechanical malfunction, is avoidable.

I guess comparing the F1 we see to racing here in the States would be like comparing a prize fight under Marques of Queensbury Rules to a barroom brawl? Or maybe a dance at the local Elks Lodge to a performance to Lords of the Dance?

Sometimes I find it a tad difficult to relate to the thinking behind F1. Maybe it's just me?

I previously stated that I thought the F1 championship was Hamilton's to lose and I believe said that Hamilton is prone to stupid mistakes. I guess we're both correct, eh?

If you haven't seen:
- start incidents
YouTube - (F1) Japenese Gp Massive Crash -- Redbull And Ferrari

- the Massa vs. Hamilton incident
YouTube - Massa vs. Hamilton - Crash at Fuji 2008

- Bourdais vs. Massa
YouTube - F1 Fuji GP 2008-Accidente Massa-Bourdais


Open wheel racercars/racers are not supposed to make contact or block each other. And that's how it's always been. There are even stricter rules about that in the USA witch still uses some of the old rules witch no longer apply in F1 since the mid 70s.

In F1 there is the one block/defensive move allowed rule.
The enforcement of the rules by the FIA however is really really weird, probably depending on factors such as stewarts personal bias, the driver, team, championship situation and other factors resulting in a lot of confusion.


As to Hamilton yeah I belive you're both correct.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

If you haven't seen:
- start incidents
YouTube - (F1) Japenese Gp Massive Crash -- Redbull And Ferrari

- the Massa vs. Hamilton incident
YouTube - Massa vs. Hamilton - Crash at Fuji 2008

- Bourdais vs. Massa
YouTube - F1 Fuji GP 2008-Accidente Massa-Bourdais


Open wheel racercars/racers are not supposed to make contact or block each other. And that's how it's always been. There are even stricter rules about that in the USA witch still uses some of the old rules witch no longer apply in F1 since the mid 70s.

In F1 there is the one block/defensive move allowed rule.
The enforcement of the rules by the FIA however is really really weird, probably depending on factors such as stewarts personal bias, the driver, team, championship situation and other factors resulting in a lot of confusion.


As to Hamilton yeah I belive you're both correct.

I just saw the replay on SPEED's replay of the race...? Looked to me as though Hamilton had a poor start and tried to make it up before the first turn (which, when you consider the lack of passing for whatever reason in F1, that might be looked upon as a logical thing to attempt. The Massa/Bourdais incident just looked...? Like sloppy driving, to me.

BTW, you should have seen your former F1 driver, Scott Speed today in the ARCA final season race at Toledo. Scott was leading in points going into the race with Ricky Stennhouse right behind him. Early in the race, Stennhouse got behind Scott and spun him into the wall, causing minor damage. In a very un-F1 move, Speed came back on the track a few laps later and worked to get in a position behind Stennhouse. He then proceeded to put him solidly into the wall, unfortunately wrecking himself out in the process. ARCA then rules Speed was out of the car for the rest of the day, costing him the championship.

If the current F1 "unavoidable collision "rule were in place at Toledo I would imagine Scott Speed would have been executed behind the grandstand.

Back to topic... Yeah, I know, open wheeled cars aren't supposed to touch but... Ca-ca occurs. It happens when cars race at high speeds. So, in hindsight I guess F1 is like a fight with Marques of Queens bury Rules, while stock cars and Sprint cars are like two chicks fighting in a pool of Wesson Oil on Friday night at your local watering hole.

It might not be as technical or "pure," but for enjoyment appealing to my baser instincts, I'll take the two chicks fighting 80% of the time.

[WestCoast]

As mentioned above, no shortage of "sloppy" driving, but overall an above average race.
My take on the 2 incidence was that Massa deliberately speared Hamilton and was penalized accordingly.
The Bourdais incident, I though was another Massa error as he came upon a slower car coming out of the pits that couldn't see him, and even if he could, so what, he held his line and Massa drove into him.

[Racer Duck]

F1 has yanked the vids at YouTube .. claiming copyright infringement. they appear really keen to develop new fans, doncha think?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

F1 has yanked the vids at YouTube .. claiming copyright infringement. they appear really keen to develop new fans, doncha think?

They appear keen on the principle of CYA and reducing the opportunity for fans to question their decisions. What will be F1's next step, make the F1 rules "Super Secret" as another sanctioning body whose name escapes me does?