[Bette]

Quarterbacks Ken Dorsey and Bruce Gradkowski, who both started games for Cleveland last season, were cut.

[ChefChiTown]

I hope the Browns aren't REALLY thinking that Brady Quinn is going to be their future. I mean, he's not. The Browns do nothing but ruin young quarterbacks and it has nothing to do with the team itself; it's all the fans and how they treat the players. I grew up in Cleveland, so I'm well aware of how brutal it can be for the players.

Plus, two words...

TIM COUCH

[bears9]

Originally Posted by ChefChiTown

I hope the Browns aren't REALLY thinking that Brady Quinn is going to be their future. I mean, he's not. The Browns do nothing but ruin young quarterbacks and it has nothing to do with the team itself; it's all the fans and how they treat the players. I grew up in Cleveland, so I'm well aware of how brutal it can be for the players.

Plus, two words...

TIM COUCH

I think they are thinking that, because that's what I'm thinking. Brady Quinn was really good before he got hurt, and I think if recievers don't drop balls (which is a huge if) Brady Quinn will be there franchise

[ButchGavlen]

I agree. BQ was lookiing good, and looking period; in that he looks over the field, looks off defenders, etc. AND he's a leader. That is so important and so different from DA. DA is a nice guy, but i've hired guys like him and worked with them. They are players but not leaders. It is important to have a leader at that position. and DA had lots more time to grow into the role; give BQ five games next year and watch him grow and take control. He hasn't had a chance to grow and learn in the actual role. wait and see.

[ChefChiTown]

Originally Posted by bears9

I think they are thinking that, because that's what I'm thinking. Brady Quinn was really good before he got hurt, and I think if recievers don't drop balls (which is a huge if) Brady Quinn will be there franchise

That might be the biggest "IF" in sports history.

Originally Posted by ButchGavlen

I agree. BQ was lookiing good, and looking period; in that he looks over the field, looks off defenders, etc. AND he's a leader. That is so important and so different from DA. DA is a nice guy, but i've hired guys like him and worked with them. They are players but not leaders. It is important to have a leader at that position. and DA had lots more time to grow into the role; give BQ five games next year and watch him grow and take control. He hasn't had a chance to grow and learn in the actual role. wait and see.

No Browns quarterback, in recent history, has had a chance to learn and grow into the actual role. No matter who the quarterback is, the Browns always ruin them by being extremely impatient. Even when they had Jeff Garcia, they made him look bad by not letting him develop and learn the system. The list goes on and on...

Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Charlie Frye
Derek Anderson
Eric Zeier
Luke McCown
Ken Dorsey
Spergon Wynn
etc.

The Cleveland Browns are the best quarterback-ruining team in the NFL.

I don't know. I think most of the names on that list are/were going to be bad anyway. Let's not confuse ruining a Q back with realizing something bad to begin with. After all, they also gave us Bernie, Sipe, Otto, etc.
you don't think they 'ruined' Phips or Mcdonals, do you? I think this time if they let things play out in the office they stand a chance of getting back to average; then from there, if they have the patience, they will only get better.
I personally like having an owner who we don't have to worry about not beingable to afford making moves, and frown on those who call for his head. But i also realize he's new to the game and will make some mistakes. He has. Now it's time to start in the right direction.
It could be worse. It could be like Detroit or a little farther west there.

[ChefChiTown]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't know. I think most of the names on that list are/were going to be bad anyway. Let's not confuse ruining a Q back with realizing something bad to begin with. After all, they also gave us Bernie, Sipe, Otto, etc.
you don't think they 'ruined' Phips or Mcdonals, do you? I think this time if they let things play out in the office they stand a chance of getting back to average; then from there, if they have the patience, they will only get better.
I personally like having an owner who we don't have to worry about not beingable to afford making moves, and frown on those who call for his head. But i also realize he's new to the game and will make some mistakes. He has. Now it's time to start in the right direction.
It could be worse. It could be like Detroit or a little farther west there.

The thing that has always ☻☻☻☻ed me off about the Browns (I grew up in Cleveland, by the way) is the fact that "on paper" they look like they should have a really solid team. But, when they step onto the field, they underproduce like no other team in the league.

Now, when they are in a situation where they don't look good "on paper", they outplay everybody's expectations and actually have a decent team.

Remember when we had Kelly Holcomb as our quarterback and everybody thought we were a joke? We did really good that year. And, even though we lost in the playoffs, Holcomb put up one of the best passing performances that I have seen in a long, long time.

Personally, I think the biggest problem for the Browns is their lack of patience. They give players a year, maybe two, to "prove" themselves and if they don't do so in such a short amount of time, it's almost as if the management says "F this guy, get rid of him".

Derek Anderson had a good year in 2007 and everybody was happy. But, when 2008 started and he didn't instantly put up Pro Bowl numbers, people wanted his head after just a few weeks. It's insane in Cleveland and it will never change. The team has suffered for years and the fans are sick of it. Patience is something that Cleveland needs to obtain, because without it, they're ruining all of their players.

[ButchGavlen]

Kelly Holcomb is a perfect example though of what i'm talking about. He never was, before or after, a better than average quarterback. In fact, when flying under radar he put up some numbers, ala DA. But once teams have a chance to see him and look on tape at his habits (mostly bad) and his give-aways, they are all over him. The reality of his first year was that mid way through to the end he was getting people killed. and never did develope a touch on a five yard pass. I don't care who you are, you can't rip a fast ball at teh speed of light into a reciever's hands unless it is maybe in the perfect spot, especially when you have a gun for an arm, and expect them to catch it.
giving a player a year is now a days is too much....if they don't stay ahead of the curve. the curve of what they have to learn compared to the adjustments teams make against you. He had almost two years. Brady has had two games. Personally, i think the biggest RECENT mistake of the Browns is not haveing a quarterback either coach or icon right there with them, grooming and advising them; the idiot on ESPN or wherever that went ot the superbowl with the Ravens.....Dilfer.....does not count.
The fans are sick of it, but mostly it is younger fans who are not patient and mistakenly call for surface fixes or knee-jerk reactions. However, this last regime was obviously, while seemingly nice guys, like coach Crennel, most of last years debauchery should be placed squarely on their shoulders.
This of course is all IMHO.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by bears9

I think they are thinking that, because that's what I'm thinking. Brady Quinn was really good before he got hurt, and I think if recievers don't drop balls (which is a huge if) Brady Quinn will be there franchise

I agree with you Bears9...I think BQ is as good as any option they have...and I take him over the inconsistant Anderson.

[azrael492]

Personally, I think the biggest problem for the Browns is their lack of patience. They give players a year, maybe two, to "prove" themselves and if they don't do so in such a short amount of time, it's almost as if the management says "F this guy, get rid of him".

I have to agree with this. I am from the area too. I wouldn't say they give players a few years, but they don't give coaches any time to develop. I odn't have the exact numbers, but how many coaches have they had sonce they came back. Every time they get a new coach, they get a new system. That has to be hard on a player to have to learn a new play book and offensive strategy every year

[ButchGavlen]

Well regardless of all the talk, we are where we are, and in the now famoous words of BE, it is what it is. How and why, well let's hope they get a handle on that before next year. I thought i'd say some of what i'm thinking and get some reactions; Kind words only, please. (right)
First, I think trading K-2 is in order, before he gets more hurt or goes down in value. It was a good try, but he's just not worth what he's gonna want. In fact i look for him to start a mantra of more money by the first reg. season game.
Second, I think trading BE is a smart thing. Not that it is something to be rushed into, but i'm thinking he's not worth the trouble; he's been all show and no go since draft day. $500 suits and commercials, look at me, look at me; dude is not afootball player. Maybe we get two picks for him in later rounds, or a pick and a player.
Third, shop DA, but don't trade unless we g et value either at picks or players. I'm tired of this attitude that we should take a lesser position in either category for whatever reason. We got him, someone needs him; if not he's a well paid backup.
Trade down the first pick, but stop thinking in such defeatist terms as i hear on the sports talk forums.
Personally, when i think about it, the new coaching staff has got to be better than what the last group did, of didn't do; and the playcall, if not the plays, gotta be an improvement.
What do you think???

[Dmbfantomas]

I think the Browns need to seriously re-assess what they want to be as a franchise.

Do they want to be a franchise that is so-so year in and year out but makes a lot of money; or do they want to be a franchise that spends money at young talent that fits a system that actually works for them.

The Browns can't run the 3-4, they don't have the players for it and it shows. Either A), suck it up for a couple more years but try your asses off to get good draft picks and draft to your needs for the 3-4 and sign whatever free agent sees the potential in your team , or B) Get out of the 3-4, because for most teams, it doesn't work at all.

[ChefChiTown]

Originally Posted by Dmbfantomas

The Browns can't run the 3-4, they don't have the players for it and it shows. Either A), suck it up for a couple more years but try your asses off to get good draft picks and draft to your needs for the 3-4 and sign whatever free agent sees the potential in your team , or B) Get out of the 3-4, because for most teams, it doesn't work at all.

I can't stand how the Browns run the 3-4. They suck at it. They might as well put Westlake High School's JV team out there instead. It wouldn't make much difference.

I don't undertand how they went from having a pretty decent defense for a few years, to just completely messing everything up and installing a whole new system. I'm still confused by the whole mess. 3-4? WHY? Other than the Pittsburgh Steelers, I honestly can't name another team that runs a 3-4 defense and actually does GOOD with it (consistently).

[bears9]

What do you guys mean they can't run a 3-4 yes they have a terrible defense but that's because they have bad players they would play a bad cover 2, 4-3, or anything else. At least they have pieces in a 3-4 Karmen Wimbley can't play any where else, Shaun Rodgers is a better fit in a 3-4. Don't hate the Browns defensive scheme

[ChefChiTown]

Originally Posted by bears9

What do you guys mean they can't run a 3-4 yes they have a terrible defense but that's because they have bad players they would play a bad cover 2, 4-3, or anything else. At least they have pieces in a 3-4 Karmen Wimbley can't play any where else, Shaun Rodgers is a better fit in a 3-4. Don't hate the Browns defensive scheme

Bad players?

Shaun Rogers is one of the toughest NTs in the league and is consistently a menace in the middle of the defensive line.

Andra Davis has nearly 700 tackles in the past 5 years and he has been the heart and soul of Cleveland's defense. He is extremely under-rated as a MLB.

D'Qwell Jackson is young stud who is only going to get better. He's not the best linebacker on the team, but he's a hell of a lot better than the people he replaced (Ben Taylor, Chaun Thompson).

Willie McGinest might be old, but he's still a solid outside linebacker. His age is the only thing you can hold against him. Other than that, he's a good man to have at OLB.

Kamerion Wimbley might not have superior statistics, but he is a sack machine just waiting to happen. James Harrison, move on over...Kamerion Wimbley could take over really soon.

Sean Jones is young safety who is just waiting to explode. In the 2 years previous to this past one, when he split time with Brodney Pool, he was credited with over 100+ in each of those seasons. He's not dominating, by any means, but he's a solid safety who the defense can rely on to make plays.

Personally, I think the only truly weak spot on the defense (besides the 3-4 scheme itself) are the cornerbacks. Hopefully we can pick up Chris McCallister in the off-season and improve our pass defense. Our corners are weak and we rely on our linebackers to pick up the slack, leaving a gaping hole in the middle, which allows teams to run all over us.

Get rid of the 3-4, acquire a good cornerback or two and then things will get better.

Also, get rid of those stupid helmets with the numbers on them and don't ever wear the plain brown pants again. If you're going to wear brown pants, make sure that they have a white middle stripe and two orange stripes around that.