[Bob Tanner]

The following *RUMOR* from jayski:
Benson to Red Horse Racing in 2009? UPDATE: Starr out at end of season? Team owner Bill Davis wasn't at Atlanta Motor Speedway on Sunday, when rumors swirled about the stability of his race team. A possible merger or sale to Gillett Evernham Motorsports has apparently fallen apart, and now comes whispers that Truck Series points leader Johnny Benson might leave the team at the end of the season to drive for Red Horse Racing.(AP/ESPN.com)(10-30-200
UPDATE: Hearing that the entire #23 team may be moving to Red Horse Racing next season. Also hearing that David Starr will be out at the end of the season, and a possible second team at Red Horse Racing will have a rookie named as driver.(10-30-200

It Toyota lets BDR go by the wayside, shame on them. Bill was the first team owner to come to Toyota's assistance when he helped them built prototype trucks for testing. It cost him a very promising MOPAR sponsorship, if anyone remembers.

So much for loyalty. I guess it just isn't "Good business?" First Jeff Gordon, now Toyota. Bill Davis just doesn't pick his business partners very well.

[jks812]

I hate to see this happen. I wish he could find a decent team to work or merge with, and I don't really think GEM was it. I'd like to see Benson stay, he's run good with BDR. But I guess he knows more about whats going on then we did, and he does have to think about his family.
I remember the deal when he was helping Toyota. If I remember right, didn't it happen at his personal shop and not even his race shop? I know he got screwed in that deal, or at least I thought he did.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

The following *RUMOR* from jayski:
Benson to Red Horse Racing in 2009? UPDATE: Starr out at end of season? Team owner Bill Davis wasn't at Atlanta Motor Speedway on Sunday, when rumors swirled about the stability of his race team. A possible merger or sale to Gillett Evernham Motorsports has apparently fallen apart, and now comes whispers that Truck Series points leader Johnny Benson might leave the team at the end of the season to drive for Red Horse Racing.(AP/ESPN.com)(10-30-200
UPDATE: Hearing that the entire #23 team may be moving to Red Horse Racing next season. Also hearing that David Starr will be out at the end of the season, and a possible second team at Red Horse Racing will have a rookie named as driver.(10-30-200

It Toyota lets BDR go by the wayside, shame on them. Bill was the first team owner to come to Toyota's assistance when he helped them built prototype trucks for testing. It cost him a very promising MOPAR sponsorship, if anyone remembers.

So much for loyalty. I guess it just isn't "Good business?" First Jeff Gordon, now Toyota. Bill Davis just doesn't pick his business partners very well.

Clearly missing some information here (I am). Was BDR planning to leave Toyo and sell all to Chrysler/Dodge/MOPAR owner(s)? If so, cannot understand why Toyo should/would have any obligation to catch BDR when/if the sale fell through. Gotta be missing something here.

Know there was speculation around GEM considering a manufacturer change (Toyo?) but do not know of any hard substantiated and undisputable facts.

The Jayski item could be read as BDR said to Toyo - we're divorcing - but the new planned/anticipated replacement affair/relationship (sale to GEM) went sour and now BDR wants to be taken back.

Gotta be missing somehting here.

[mccastle]

Harvick should jump on Benson. That would either a super team or the biggest disaster since the Hindenburg.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by mccastle

Harvick should jump on Benson. That would either a super team or the biggest disaster since the Hindenburg.

Benson's not a Harvick kind of player. If I remember right, his former Cup crew chief, James Ince, threatened Johnny when he refused to do a bump&run on...? Kurt Busch...? for the win (was it at Martinsville?) back when Benson was in Cup. Johnny's reason was that he "wasn't that kind of driver."

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

It Toyota lets BDR go by the wayside, shame on them. Bill was the first team owner to come to Toyota's assistance when he helped them built prototype trucks for testing. It cost him a very promising MOPAR sponsorship, if anyone remembers.

I remember it very well. He stepped in and got them goin in the truck series. So yeah it would be shame, shame on them.

So much for loyalty. I guess it just isn't "Good business?" First Jeff Gordon, now Toyota. Bill Davis just doesn't pick his business partners very well.

He must either be an easy mark, or just a very trustin person to get screwed like that.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Clearly missing some information here (I am). Was BDR planning to leave Toyo and sell all to Chrysler/Dodge/MOPAR owner(s)? If so, cannot understand why Toyo should/would have any obligation to catch BDR when/if the sale fell through. Gotta be missing something here.

Know there was speculation around GEM considering a manufacturer change (Toyo?) but do not know of any hard substantiated and undisputable facts.

The Jayski item could be read as BDR said to Toyo - we're divorcing - but the new planned/anticipated replacement affair/relationship (sale to GEM) went sour and now BDR wants to be taken back.

Gotta be missing somehting here.

Believe the *rumor* of BDR going to MOPAR had only a little less credibility than the *rumor* I posted.

First RGR's merger with GEM goes south. Now a BDR merger dissolves the same way? Must be something in the water at GEM HQ?

It was reported and discussed in another thread that GEM was discussing a swap to the rice burners but NA__AR, of all people, put a nix on the plan. True or false? Who knows?

You reading and deciphering abilities for surpass mine. I saw nothing of that in the reported statement but then no one has ever accused me of being the brightest light in the chandelier, either.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Believe the *rumor* of BDR going to MOPAR had only a little less credibility than the *rumor* I posted.

First RGR's merger with GEM goes south. Now a BDR merger dissolves the same way? Must be something in the water at GEM HQ?

It was reported and discussed in another thread that GEM was discussing a swap to the rice burners but NA__AR, of all people, put a nix on the plan. True or false? Who knows?

You reading and deciphering abilities for surpass mine. I saw nothing of that in the reported statement but then no one has ever accused me of being the brightest light in the chandelier, either.

I gotta think if NASCAR actually tried to enforce a nix on a 'Yota move by GEM (or any other major "house"), all kinds of bad publicity would ensue .. along with a probable law suit by 'Yota and GEM (even though they probably wouldn't go anywhere). Not the least of which would be claims of favoritism to GM (and it's new subsidiary Dodge). And any further attempt to cripple the 'Yotas by NASCAR will lead to TRD and the 'Yota teams becoming "inventive". Remember, none other than the Grand Pubah, Mike Helton, is quoted as saying NASCAR "ain't that smart."

that said, I think the "Must be something in the water at GEM HQ?" remark hit the nail dead square perfect...

[mccastle]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I gotta think if NASCAR actually tried to enforce a nix on a 'Yota move by GEM (or any other major "house"), all kinds of bad publicity would ensue .. along with a probable law suit by 'Yota and GEM (even though they probably wouldn't go anywhere). Not the least of which would be claims of favoritism to GM (and it's new subsidiary Dodge). And any further attempt to cripple the 'Yotas by NASCAR will lead to TRD and the 'Yota teams becoming "inventive". Remember, none other than the Grand Pubah, Mike Helton, is quoted as saying NASCAR "ain't that smart."

that said, I think the "Must be something in the water at GEM HQ?" remark hit the nail dead square perfect...

Nascar was not trying to stop GEM's move to Toyota. According to what I heard on Sirius', The Morning Drive, nascar said that if GEM merged with another team they could not have more than 4 cars. The manufacturer has nothing to do with it. It is a car count issue. This was confirmed by a nascar higher up. I can not remember the person name.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by mccastle

Nascar was not trying to stop GEM's move to Toyota. According to what I heard on Sirius', The Morning Drive, nascar said that if GEM merged with another team they could not have more than 4 cars. The manufacturer has nothing to do with it. It is a car count issue. This was confirmed by a nascar higher up. I can not remember the person name.

I wasn't referring to the team merger.

I also saw something that said NASCAR had "warned" 'Yota about "buying up" Dodge teams. Like Bob, I don't know if it's fact or rumor. That's what I was referring to.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by mccastle

Nascar was not trying to stop GEM's move to Toyota. According to what I heard on Sirius', The Morning Drive, nascar said that if GEM merged with another team they could not have more than 4 cars. The manufacturer has nothing to do with it. It is a car count issue. This was confirmed by a nascar higher up. I can not remember the person name.

I'm almost positive you meant four "teams," not four "cars." Going on that assumption...

Carrie, That statement sounds like something straight out of a NA__AR press release, given to some MRN shill to give to the public. I bet it was Mike Bagley (your consummate NA__AR/MRN toady) that said they could have no more than four teams. I would hope David wouldn't have the audacity to say something that blatantly false.

The max-teams-per-owner rule went bye-bye in 1987. Roush has seven teams (five of his own and the two, or will it be three, Yates teams). Gibbs has four full time teams (three at Gibbs, one at HOF and an occasional part time team for Master Joey). I won't even begin to attempt to account for all the teams, full and part time, which Hendrick has a vested interest in. Let's not even think about the DEI/RCR amalgamation.

The ONLY teams playing it even halfway legit today are GEM, Petty, Ganassi, BDR , Robby Gordon and Furniture Row. And, you can see by performance where that getting them!

[mccastle]

Yes I meant Teams and it was Bagley and he named the nascar person he got a phone call from but I can not remember who it was.

Just go ahead and say it....I am gullible. I guess I need to learn the art of suspicion.

[mccastle]

Ok I am listening to this morning's morning drive and someone asked about it again and it was Ramsey Poston who spoke for Nascar.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by mccastle

Yes I meant Teams and it was Bagley and he named the nascar person he got a phone call from but I can not remember who it was.

Just go ahead and say it....I am gullible. I guess I need to learn the art of suspicion.

No, no, no, no... That wasn't a lecture nor an insult to you. It was meant ONLY s just a reminder that these MRN shills like Bagley, Steve Post, Dave Moody, and probably the most Pollyanna of them all, Barney Hall, are owned, bought and paid for by NA__AR. In fact, it doesn't take most investigation at all to see that MRN is a subsidiary of ISC.

A closer look will tell you that the only way SIRIUS was able to keep its NA__AR channel was to replace the bulk of the original SIRIUS personnel with MRN people.
John Kernan saw this coming in 2007 and left. Buddy Baker was gone for awhile but SIRIUS threw him a small bone and gave him a show in a non-radio time slot. (It runs opposite TV prime time)
David Poole was a different person after this past January but, he has come back somewhat but he still pushes the NA__AR company line whenever ordered to do so. To his credit, he still throws a jab at NA__AR every now and then and is the most "honest" of all the SIRIUS staff.

No, I actually envy you and your ability to see a bright side of what has happened to NASCAR. But I dearly love this sport and have become far too cynical toward this new NA__AR. I recommend the Ed Hinton link, over on the NASCAR Forum. Ed and I, and some others, believe it was a lot more exciting and fun back then.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by mccastle

Ok I am listening to this morning's morning drive and someone asked about it again and it was Ramsey Poston who spoke for Nascar.

Thanks. That figures.

NA__AR's "Official" position (this week, anyway) is that next sometime in the future, no team owner can have more than four teams. Part ownership, vested interest ownership, putting a team in the name of one of your drivers, your wife, your father or your pool boy, all are notwithstanding. The relationship that Roush has with Yates defies description and requires lawyers the ilk of those on Boston Legal to explain where the line of demarcation between owners actually is.

But, Poston is an employee of NA__AR/ISC and I give him credit for corporate loyalty. He explained it exactly the way NA__AR required.