[simple simon]

so many of you seem to be debating Ortiz or Jeter

im here to tell you, youre over looking someone

Manny Ramirez

compare his stats to Jeter

BA Jeter .334 Manny .328
obp Jeter .411 Manny .443
slugging Jeter .467 Manny .632
HR Jeter 10 Manny 34

seems to me the stats are very much in Manny's favor

[MJHMarc]

Thanks for your opinion, simplesimon.

Even though all of the players in question have impressive numbers, I think Ortiz should win it. How can you pass up 46 HRs for another excellent slugger with 34? David Ortiz has risen above the standards this year (cleanly) and should have captured himself his first MVP Award, and the first for a designated-hitter.

By the way, Derek Jeter had a better year in 1999 with the New York Yankees.

[simple simon]

i bring this up to combat the "Jeter should win because Ortiz is a DH" arguement

i agree it should be Ortiz, but if he can't as a DH then i think Manny is still a better choice then Jeter just by the numbers

[MJHMarc]

Does it say that a DH cannot win the MVP Award in the little big book of official rulings? I thought any player in the major leagues, regardless of position is eligible to win the Award.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by MJHMarc

Does it say that a DH cannot win the MVP Award in the little big book of official rulings? I thought any player in the major leagues, regardless of position is eligible to win the Award.

ask the voters dude, im with you on this

i say Ortiz all the way

with the numbers and the clutch hitting it should be a no brainer

but you and i both know many voters dont see it that way

because he is a DH, many voters wont even consider him if he belts 100 HR's

they will just vote him in 2nd so they save a little face

with that said, if it cant be Ortiz, it must be Manny

[MJHMarc]

I am sure that Boston will support David Ortiz more than Manny Ramirez. I have been reading a Boston Red Sox book for no apparent reason, but all the talk about is the great acquistion of David Ortiz. I can't wait until Ortiz's and Manny's contracts are up so I can find out how much they are asking for? I can imagine over $10 Million a year, but that would seem unrealistic for a ballclub to sign both players to expensive multi-year contracts.

[MVB]

Originally Posted by simple simon

so many of you seem to be debating Ortiz or Jeter

im here to tell you, youre over looking someone

Manny Ramirez

compare his stats to Jeter

BA Jeter .334 Manny .328
obp Jeter .411 Manny .443
slugging Jeter .467 Manny .632
HR Jeter 10 Manny 34

seems to me the stats are very much in Manny's favor

You left out a lot of important stats:

Jeter: 90 runs
Manny: 70 runs

Jeter: 166 hits
Manny: 140 hits

Jeter 30 doubles
Manny: 26 doubles

Jeter: 82 K's
Manny: 94 K's

Jeter: 26 stolen bases
Manny: 0

Jeter: .323 BA on the road
Manny: .292 BA on the road

Jeter: .444 BA with bases loaded
Manny: .143 BA with bases loaded

Jeter: .324 BA in 8th-9th innings
Manny: .259 BA in 8th-9th innings

Jeter: .385 BA ( 47 hits) with runners in scoring position
Manny: .325 BA (39 hits) with runners in scoring position

[EmpireWF]

Manny isn't considered only because of Ortiz. Most consider Ortiz the biggest offensive weapon for Boston. That automatically removes Manny from contension IMO.

And it may not be right w/ the modern times, but I just can't give the MVP to Ortiz...mainly because of the DH thing. But with Boston seemingly out of the playoffs, I don't see a reason to give him the award.

[MJHMarc]

It is no big surprise here that MVB is defending his boy, Derek Jeter.

I know that plenty of baseball fans (like EmpireWF) have problems handing over the MVP Award to the DH. But Ortiz is a spectacular batter and can field as you saw in Minnesota. He started off as a first-baseman and switched to DH because of his lack of speed on the bases.

Would you feel better if he played the field and gave up a million errors? Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez both make plenty of errors and you can give them the MVP Award? And plus, why mess with Ortiz's perfection with a bat?

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by MVB

You left out a lot of important stats:

Jeter: 90 runs
Manny: 70 runs

Jeter: 166 hits
Manny: 140 hits

Jeter 30 doubles
Manny: 26 doubles

Jeter: 82 K's
Manny: 94 K's

Jeter: 26 stolen bases
Manny: 0

Jeter: .323 BA on the road
Manny: .292 BA on the road

Jeter: .444 BA with bases loaded
Manny: .143 BA with bases loaded

Jeter: .324 BA in 8th-9th innings
Manny: .259 BA in 8th-9th innings

Jeter: .385 BA ( 47 hits) with runners in scoring position
Manny: .325 BA (39 hits) with runners in scoring position

i would dare say your stats are less impressive and mine are more impressive given 2 facts

1. Jeter has about 70 more at bats then Manny

2. Manny has no real threat batting behind him to protect him like Jeter does

[simple simon]

[quote=EmpireWF]Manny isn't considered only because of Ortiz. quote]

by that logic, shouldnt Jeter not be considered because of Rivera ?

would you contend Jeter is more valuable then maybe the greatest closer of the last 20+ years ?

[MLBNY]

Originally Posted by simple simon

i would dare say your stats are less impressive and mine are more impressive given 2 facts

1. Jeter has about 70 more at bats then Manny

2. Manny has no real threat batting behind him to protect him like Jeter does

Of course Jeter has more ABs, he bats in the #2 spot primarily. The power numbers for Ramirez will generally always be higher because he is that kind of player, where as Jeter has power but gets on to set the table for the rest of the guys behind him (your #2 point). When you look at the other AL MVP candidates, Ramirez has plenty of work to do and an act to clean up to have a chance at the award. Where is Jermaine Dye in this discussion?
Dye - .327, 37 HR and 99 RBI not to mention many timely hits to keep the White Sox in contention

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by simple simon

by that logic, shouldnt Jeter not be considered because of Rivera ?

would you contend Jeter is more valuable then maybe the greatest closer of the last 20+ years ?

That's an interesting argument because I've heard it locally that Rivera should be considered for the award as well. The reason I can see Jeter be considered is because he's had an amazing year and has consistantly been the Yankees best hitter and clutch.

Ortiz has been Boston's best hitter. Most Valuable Player. Again, I go back to Varitek. Once he went down, Boston went downhill. Ortiz couldn't save them on his own.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by EmpireWF

Ortiz couldn't save them on his own.

and Jeter could ?

id dare say Ortiz has directly won more games for the Sox this year then Jeter has for the Yankees

[MJHMarc]

Derek Jeter and David Ortiz are both known as clutch hitters. Ortiz has suddenly become a powerful slugger within the last three years. As for Jeter, he has been consistently strong throughout his career. Jeter has been a franchise player for longer than Ortiz has been smashing homeruns. In that case, does a proven veteran deserve the Award or does a surprisingly slugger who had a few good years? Ortiz's numbers have always been decent at best, but now he is involved in MVP talks? I'd like to see how well "Big Pappi" will perform in the Playoffs--if he makes the Playoffs!