[ThePundit]

Our Kobe chat has raised a good question. Who would everyone rather have as the foundation of their franchise? Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett? I would take Garnett.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

Our Kobe chat has raised a good question. Who would everyone rather have as the foundation of their franchise? Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett? I would take Garnett.

I really like the Kobemeister but if I had to pick a player for a franchise, the seven footer would be too hard to pass up...I would take Garnett.

[legend]

Kobe by a lot here. He will be 27 in August, three years younger than Garnett. Both have similar career averages, except Kobe's is on the way up while Garnett's is heading south. Kobe is going to get his team into the playoffs, while Garnett is not even coming close. Garnett may be the most overrated player in the game right now. Kobe goes to the line more and attempts only one more shot per game than Garnett for their careers.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by legend

Kobe by a lot here. He will be 27 in August, three years younger than Garnett. Both have similar career averages, except Kobe's is on the way up while Garnett's is heading south. Kobe is going to get his team into the playoffs, while Garnett is not even coming close. Garnett may be the most overrated player in the game right now. Kobe goes to the line more and attempts only one more shot per game than Garnett for their careers.

Garnett is harder to replace on the floor than Kobe...that's what I based the issue on. Super skilled 7 footers are harder to find than guards that can score...plain and simple. I personally like Kobe...but if I am building a team I'd take my changes with Garnett...same way I would rather build a team around Wilt Chamberlin than Michael Jordan...I have nothing against Jordan...and his many championships are noted ...but I would always start a franchise by going with the strongest center I can find (Yes, I know that Garnett is not really a center...but he gets you what a center would).

[ThePundit]

I agree with in general terms Gotham, but I would take Jordan over anybody. And I actually would take Abdul-Jabbar over Wilt. And maybe even Bill Russell. Legend - What if Kobe and Garnett were the same age, would you still take Kobe?

[legend]

You can win without a great center, but you cannot win without a great guard. Kobe in crunch time can get a shot from anywhere on the floor.There are many examples of teams that won without great centers but few if any that won without great guards. In today's game the center position is so weak and ill defined that I would take a great guard. Just my opinion.

[cjg11582]

I think it is Kobe in a landslide here. Usually I align myself with the post player as I tend to believe the big man is more valuable than the perimeter player. But Garnett is not a prototypical big man, meaning he isn't always operating out of the post. I think that hinders Garnett in this comparison. And if we judge them based on their team Kobe has The Lakers holding the 7th seed, while Minnesota isn't anywhere near the playoffs. One might argue that as bad as Kobe's supporting cast is, it is more efficient than the one Garnett has in Minnesota. For the sake of the argument I will agree with you, but if the two players switched teams, would LA be in the playoffs with Garnett leading the helm. Personally, I would say no.
If we judge the two by all the mitigating factors (age, likability, statistics, leadership) I think Kobe still has an edge. Garnett is as likeable as any player in the league (Kobe would be the antithesis in this respect) but the other three listed I would rather have Kobe on my team if I needed longevity, scoring and an on-court general (I know I am probably in the minority on this one, but I have watched numerous Laker games this year, and I think Bryant has turned the corner. Thats why The Lakers are playing better and winning with more consistency).

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by legend

You can win without a great center, but you cannot win without a great guard. Kobe in crunch time can get a shot from anywhere on the floor.There are many examples of teams that won without great centers but few if any that won without great guards. In today's game the center position is so weak and ill defined that I would take a great guard. Just my opinion.

come on Leg, I know you don't like Wilt and all...but you just presented a self defeating argument...the fact that "The center postion is weak" is exactly why guards (including MJ) can play such an important role...Given the choice between dominant center or dominant guard there are not too many GM's in the league that would take the guard...and if your argument holds true, just when does Iverson and Kobe plan on winning the title without a center?...as opposed to say a seven footer like Duncan?...which brings up the Spurs...where is their Hall of Fame guard?....if its not MJ...what guard lead team without a center can win?...Even the fabled Big O had to wait for the big man Kareem to arrive...Kobe can't do it without Shaq...Iverson won't get there...Jerry West had to wait for Wilt...Cousy for Russell...Stockton couldn't do it even with Karl Malone at forward...Pete Maravich never did...The Celtics of the 80's won without a guard, but had the Chief ,oh and so yoyo named Bird...Walton's Blazers did not exactly have Hall of Fame guards either...

MJ is the rarest of cases, unless we look at say the Rick Barry lead Warriors or some odd ball team...and I would still take Wilt over MJ...

As an NBA GM you guys would take loveable ball hog Kobe (whom I still like even when he has been blasted all over this board), over Garnett?...We are talking about Garnett right?...not Ralph Sampson with bad knees?....

[legend]

The game has moved away from the era of center domination, with the skills of big men being at an all time low. Duncan often plays forward. The Celtics of the Eighties had some pretty good guards if I recall, namely Dennis Johnson and Danny Ainge. And where is the dominant center? With the exception of a handful of players, there are none. if garnett is so great, where is his Finals appaerance. He's played with Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Terrell Brandon, Stephon Marbury, with nothing to show for it. Iverson and Stockton at least went to the Finals. My argument here isn't that a GM wouldn't take a dominant center, it is that Garnett is not one. We are talking about Garnett and his history of disappearing in big spots, something Kobe can never be accuse of.
I have never disliked Wilt, it's just that I always liked Jabbar more. It would be like taking the argument of who do you want, Ann Margaret or Nicole Kidman? One is a beautiful woman and actress, the other a beautiful woman and Oscar winning actress. Bad example maybe because I would take Ann Margaret any day!

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by legend

The game has moved away from the era of center domination, with the skills of big men being at an all time low. Duncan often plays forward. The Celtics of the Eighties had some pretty good guards if I recall, namely Dennis Johnson and Danny Ainge. And where is the dominant center? With the exception of a handful of players, there are none. if garnett is so great, where is his Finals appaerance. He's played with Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Terrell Brandon, Stephon Marbury, with nothing to show for it. Iverson and Stockton at least went to the Finals. My argument here isn't that a GM wouldn't take a dominant center, it is that Garnett is not one. We are talking about Garnett and his history of disappearing in big spots, something Kobe can never be accuse of.
I have never disliked Wilt, it's just that I always liked Jabbar more. It would be like taking the argument of who do you want, Ann Margaret or Nicole Kidman? One is a beautiful woman and actress, the other a beautiful woman and Oscar winning actress. Bad example maybe because I would take Ann Margaret any day!

Cool...if the arguement truly is Garnett and not centers per say...the agrument too is Kobe, who without Shaq at his side is reduced to a ball hog on a semi good team...So apples to apples...the chances of a average guard winning with Garnett I would say are better than an average center winning with Kobe...

BTW, I am a life long Celtic fan...but neither Johnson or Ainge were elite guards...the 76ers use to take the Celtics guards to task often...Those two guards as much as I liked them were not elite...not even in the top 100 in NBA history I would say...

...and before we equate Wilt to Ann Margaret...the man did win some titles there...even during the great Celtic era...so he wasn't just a sex kitten there Legend...