[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

I doubt it. You'd have to prove Bonds was actively using steroids after they were banned by baseball. That'll be tough to do.

Here's a question Lefty, even if the steroids in question where banned by baseball, wheren't they illegal, so doesn't that make it wrong anyways?

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Here's a question Lefty, even if the steroids in question where banned by baseball, wheren't they illegal, so doesn't that make it wrong anyways?

Yep, it most certainly does. This is where it gets shaky... can baseball strip a record if someone did something that was illegal, but not against their rules?

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Yep, it most certainly does. This is where it gets shaky... can baseball strip a record if someone did something that was illegal, but not against their rules?

yes, and they should..

[azrael492]

Until somebody can prove to me that he took steroids, he is still the home run king. Not just pictures of him being skinny then muscular....solid proof. I am pretty curious to see what new info they have to indict him. It should be a fun off season.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Yep, it most certainly does. This is where it gets shaky... can baseball strip a record if someone did something that was illegal, but not against their rules?

It's not against the MLB rules, but it's still illegal. If they don't do somethin to him, they will pretty much say it may have been illegal in the eyes of the law, but since it doesn't break our rules it's ok. What kind of image does that portray?

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Quality88

It's not against the MLB rules, but it's still illegal. If they don't do somethin to him, they will pretty much say it may have been illegal in the eyes of the law, but since it doesn't break our rules it's ok. What kind of image does that portray?

The same image they had in the 90's...see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...it was good for the game then...now Bonds is gonna take the fall for the whole league.

[Lefty Noob]

Bonds could well go to jail, but I don't see any grounds where baseball can strip him of his accomplishment.

If they try, they'll get sued so fast it's not even funny, and I can see the case now - Bonds' attorneys will argue that it's unlawful for them to strike the record because he obeyed the rules of the game as they were written during that era, and that baseball, by trying to remove the record, is intentionally damaging their client's earning potential. Baseball will lose that case so fast that it'll make people's heads spin.

[Tiny Tom]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

Come back to me Lefty, my boy.

There's so much circustancial evidence that he would even be convicted in a court of law.

To follow your logic, Scott Peterson wouldn't have been convicted because nobody saw him actually kill his wife. And that's in a court of law. Baseball's burden of proof doesn't need to be that high.

After his trial, his record is going to be taken off the books, mark my word. And it's the right thing to do.

I agree with everything Pundit said except the the first part of the last sentence. I don't think they'll scrap Bonds' record. It has to do with opening a whole Pandora's Box that was mentioned by others in this thread. An asterisk yes but I think he's the new home run king in the books. And the Scott Peterson comparison is a great comparison. If the only proof to convince people is to have clear videotaped evidence of Bonds with a needle hanging out of his arm with a label marked "STEROIDS" then you're never gonna be convinced. The evidence to convict him is plenty and now I saw on the cover of a newspaper that he did indeed lie in some court or something (not too sure I was just getting a coffee and a bagel on my way to work) about his steroid use. We're he on trial in the justice system he'd be guilty.

[Lefty Noob]

But see, this is my point - it sounds like they have the evidence to convice NOW. But they DIDN'T back when I originally made the arguments about not being able to prove anything. No one necessarily needed to see Bonds use - but a paper trail, someone coming forward and saying that they sold roids to him, or injected him - something like this was what was lacking from the case. He's still not been found guilty, by the way, he's just been indicted. Let's let the courts handle it and stop convicting the man before he's had a fair trial just because we don't like him.

[ThePundit]

WHO IS THIS GUY WHO LOOKS LIKE A TOOTHPICK?

[bears9]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Bonds could well go to jail, but I don't see any grounds where baseball can strip him of his accomplishment.

If they try, they'll get sued so fast it's not even funny, and I can see the case now - Bonds' attorneys will argue that it's unlawful for them to strike the record because he obeyed the rules of the game as they were written during that era, and that baseball, by trying to remove the record, is intentionally damaging their client's earning potential. Baseball will lose that case so fast that it'll make people's heads spin.

Because, He is going to jail for lying about using steroids there for there is proof he cheated

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by bears9

Because, He is going to jail for lying about using steroids there for there is proof he cheated

not exactly to my understanding of it ........ he never told them he didnt take them, he told them he may have taken them without knowing it

as for cheating ..... obviously some will argue at the time it wasnt against the rules of baseball ........ i think that arguement is a load of hooey ..... right now is it against the rules of baseball to commit rape .. probably not .. let's say a 25 year old player commits rape and goes to jail for 5 years, he gets out when he is 30 .. will MLB openly accept him back ? ........... seems they should if it isnt a rule on the books

[bears9]

Originally Posted by simple simon

not exactly to my understanding of it ........ he never told them he didnt take them, he told them he may have taken them without knowing it

as for cheating ..... obviously some will argue at the time it wasnt against the rules of baseball ........ i think that arguement is a load of hooey ..... right now is it against the rules of baseball to commit rape .. probably not .. let's say a 25 year old player commits rape and goes to jail for 5 years, he gets out when he is 30 .. will MLB openly accept him back ? ........... seems they should if it isnt a rule on the books

Well in the sense he still knowing took steroids so there is now proof

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by simple simon

as for cheating ..... obviously some will argue at the time it wasnt against the rules of baseball ........ i think that argument is a load of hooey ..... right now is it against the rules of baseball to commit rape .. probably not .. let's say a 25 year old player commits rape and goes to jail for 5 years, he gets out when he is 30 .. will MLB openly accept him back ? ........... seems they should if it isnt a rule on the books

Without realizing it, simon, you're making my argument for me.

If a player is convicted of a crime like you mentioned, he will go to jail because he violated the law. But will his baseball records be stripped from the books because he did so? No, they wouldn't be. Because while he violated the law, nothing he did on the field was against baseball rules. No one took Pete Rose's 3000 hits away from him because he gambled as a manager, right?

And I wouldn't be so sure to dismiss that someone wouldn't sign said player - it's often said the bottom line is, "can he help me win?" How many active professional athlete have criminal records? Exactly. Maybe things would be different with a more heinous crime (I would certainly hope so), but I kind of doubt it.

[JRL]

While I have mixed feelings with Bond’s record I think it will stand. Baseball turned a blind eye on the decade of the home runs. In reality I think about half the players were juiced.

Didn’t Bret Boone go from less than 10 HR’s a year to over 40? I used to see him around Atlanta and he was just a little second baseman – then – holy cow he got huge. Same thing with John Rocker who I saw several times a week – he looked like a freaking linebacker. He went from lunatic juiced up pitcher to just another guy that threw in the high 80’s low 90’s when baseball started testing.

Baseball loved the publicity that came with the juiced players and enjoyed resurgence in attendance. I lay most of the blame on the league – they had to know.

I doubt Bonds will see jail time and his record will stand but……. and remember he has been indicted not for using steroids but for lying to the grand jury and committing perjury.