[MVB]

I see... Who's our target... like in all of baseball, people tend to target Bonds... Who's our main target?

[ThePundit]

MVB: Every one of these guys knows exatly what they put on or in their bodies. So anyone who says they didn't know what they were doing is so full of it. Whether it be Sheffield or anyone else. It's like Pete Rose telling me he didn't bet on baseball. It insults my intelligence (although that isn't very hard to do).

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

I'm with Pundit. These guys make millions of dollars because of their physical condition. They are careful about every single thing they put into their bodies, and I can promise you that they don't start injecting needles or swallowing pills until they know exactly what they are.

Unless their managers ground up some pills and mixed it in with their applesauce, they're liars.

[MVB]

No, it would be the coaches who tricked them into taking something. Sheffield's steroids were for his leg injury, not to enhance his batting.

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

I don't recall ever saying he took anything for his batting, but thanks for the clarity.

Coaches, managers, isn't it the same thing? So you'd rather paint the coaches as the bad guys instead of the athletes? These are just innocent ballplayers who were happy to sit out for a while letting their injuries heal naturally but were tricked into taking steroids by overzealous coaches?

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by CityofBrotherlyShove

I don't recall ever saying he took anything for his batting, but thanks for the clarity.

Coaches, managers, isn't it the same thing? So you'd rather paint the coaches as the bad guys instead of the athletes? These are just innocent ballplayers who were happy to sit out for a while letting their injuries heal naturally but were tricked into taking steroids by overzealous coaches?

No...I really think what MVB is trying to say is that in this country people are innocent until proven quilty...and not the other way around...I do not believe that the court of public opinion (which is what this is) has the right to destroy a career on the off chance that someone wrote a book which might be proven factual...Either that or he is just a die hard Yankee fan that doesn't see the muscle enhanced writing on the wall...this could go either way...

[CityofBrotherlyShove]

Well, there's a difference between the court of public opinion and an actual court. If baseball were to ban a player based solely on a book, I'd agree that more proof would be necesary. But the court of public opinion can think anything at all with as much or as little proof as those people desire.

People want to think Kobe is a rapist, despite the fact that unless those people were in that hotel room, they don't know what actually happened. People want to think Iverson is a gangsta, but unless he mugged them, they have no proof that he's anything but a good father and good husband. People want to think that Jose Theodore took Propecia to cover up another steroid instead of just to stimulate hair growth - but unless they were there when he took it, they don't know the real reason.

Look, this is what EVERYONE does - we make decisions based on the information provided to us, our own personal bias, and our gut feelings. This Bonds case is no different. So to pretend that you are somehow above it all is just plain silly.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by CityofBrotherlyShove

Well, there's a difference between the court of public opinion and an actual court. If baseball were to ban a player based solely on a book, I'd agree that more proof would be necesary. But the court of public opinion can think anything at all with as much or as little proof as those people desire.

People want to think Kobe is a rapist, despite the fact that unless those people were in that hotel room, they don't know what actually happened. People want to think Iverson is a gangsta, but unless he mugged them, they have no proof that he's anything but a good father and good husband. People want to think that Jose Theodore took Propecia to cover up another steroid instead of just to stimulate hair growth - but unless they were there when he took it, they don't know the real reason.

Look, this is what EVERYONE does - we make decisions based on the information provided to us, our own personal bias, and our gut feelings. This Bonds case is no different. So to pretend that you are somehow above it all is just plain silly.

Exactly!... ...and I am just playing a Defense Attorney in this crazy thing we call "The Court of Public Opinon"....(side note: Hey Ross...that would make for a good new Forum...we can try our sports stars in a new forum...pick 12 members of GoTeamsGo to serve on the jury...render a vertict...etc...just a thought man )...and for the record, yes, of course I am above it all, thanks for noticing...can't imagine getting my "squeaky clean" image soiled now...geez...like I would ever, ever cast a stone...speak on a whim...or form an opinion out of a gut feel...really now...me?...never!...

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by CityofBrotherlyShove

Well, there's a difference between the court of public opinion and an actual court. If baseball were to ban a player based solely on a book, I'd agree that more proof would be necesary. But the court of public opinion can think anything at all with as much or as little proof as those people desire.

The two reporters who wrote the book used actual court documents, grand jury testimony and interviews with federal investigators for the majority of their info. All Selig has to do is start a serious investigation into some of these guys and it will all fall into place.

But MLB won't do that because they'll come under fire for letting it all go down...and likely knowing it.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by EmpireWF

The two reporters who wrote the book used actual court documents, grand jury testimony and interviews with federal investigators for the majority of their info. All Selig has to do is start a serious investigation into some of these guys and it will all fall into place.

But MLB won't do that because they'll come under fire for letting it all go down...and likely knowing it.

Empire you are hired!...You will play the Persecuting Attorney in "The People's Verse Gary Sheffield"...enter whatever evidence you have...but cite sources please...

[ThePundit]

I'm with City Of Bro Love on This: Court of public opinion is not a court of Law. Based on all the facts, although not 100%, I'm pretty damned sure Sheffield knew exactly what he was doing.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by ThePundit

I'm with City Of Bro Love on This: Court of public opinion is not a court of Law. Based on all the facts, although not 100%, I'm pretty damned sure Sheffield knew exactly what he was doing.

Aaah, Pundit...welcome to Court buddy...look I was going to give the job to Empire...but heck, you'll do.

Now in this "Court of Public Opinion"...the statement, "I'm pretty damned sure Sheffield knew exactly what he was doing" is rather weak my man... I think I'd like to counter that with saying that my client Mr. Sheffield is a bit of an "idiot" if I may use that term and was not fully aware fo the matter....

I'd like to enter into evidence Exhibit A: During the 1992 season Shefield lost a shot at the NL triple crown when he slammed a car door on his hand and broke it.

Thus Mr. Sheffield can establish a basis for " poor reasoning, leading to bad decision making."....I say that this helps establish reasonable doubt...and that Gary was not fully aware of the matter at hand...an is innocent of intent.

[MVB]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

No...I really think what MVB is trying to say is that in this country people are innocent until proven quilty...and not the other way around...I do not believe that the court of public opinion (which is what this is) has the right to destroy a career on the off chance that someone wrote a book which might be proven factual...Either that or he is just a die hard Yankee fan that doesn't see the muscle enhanced writing on the wall...this could go either way...

Right! These athletes are innocent until PROVEN guilty... which Game of Shadows does NOT do....

Originally Posted by "Gotham Dark Knight

..we can try our sports stars in a new forum...pick 12 members of GoTeamsGo to serve on the jury...render a vertict...etc...just a thought man....

Awesome Idea!!! We should start a new forum...

[EmpireWF]

These are pretty much facts...the book gives us the evidence of what Bonds and Sheff were found to be doing because of all the court documents and other sources said so.

Notice how Bonds didn't sue stating the authors made up the facts, but over the fact that they may have used the sources and published them illegally. Bonds never denied what the book says.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by EmpireWF

These are pretty much facts...the book gives us the evidence of what Bonds and Sheff were found to be doing because of all the court documents and other sources said so.

Notice how Bonds didn't sue stating the authors made up the facts, but over the fact that they may have used the sources and published them illegally. Bonds never denied what the book says.

Empire...this is the case of "The People verses Gary Sheffield"...unless you are trying to establish the credibility of the book, please refrain from grouping Mr. Bonds with Mr. Sheffield in this issue...thank you...