[Full Cougar]

Michael Vick could be out of Jail for the 2009 NFL season. So who here thinks he will get a job in the NFL. It is possible he could get signed by some really bad team looking for a QB, or maybe he could get signed by a good team, or not signed at all.

No matter what happens their seems to be some very split opinions on wether he should go back to the NFL, stay out, or even stay in jail even longer. Some of these factors could apply in a team deciding if they should sign Michael Vick.

• What he did was bad, maybe some owners will rule him out just because of morals.
• He could draw fans away, some people feel very strongly against what he did, and may turn away from him or a team if he is signed by them.
• What if other players on the team did not like what he did and did not like playing on the same field as him, atleast not in the same jersey.
• Maybe some owners think he has been in jail for a while and could have lost some touch for the game.

So what do you think? Will he come back to the NFL? What team? What factors also apply to wether he gets on or does not get on a team? Any other thoughts?

[Bleedin Purple]

He might come back, but to a team that accepts those kind of players, maybe the Raiders or something.

I would hate to have him on my team just because I dont respect him and he would give our team a bad name.

I do think he deserves another shot in the NFL, just not sure if he will get one, because most of his fans now dislike him.

[Full Cougar]

I also wouldn't like it if he came to the Giants, but I don't really think that would happen.

[drfunk1986]

Shesssh, I can understand where you guys are coming from but what ever happened to forgiveness. What if he truely means what he says that he is sorry and apologizes? Wouldn't you guys like to be forgiven to? It's sucks that we live in a world that where a guy like this can't be forgiven. Where a man who yes killed dogs and I do not agree what he did was right but is treated worse than an actual murderor. Some people say this was also murder but if you clearly look at the definition of "murder" what he did was not. I'm not condoning it but some people can and do change.

definition: Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification. All jurisdictions, ancient and modern, consider it a most serious crime and therefore impose severe penalty on its commission.

What he did was wrong, but If he truely has changed I would not mind him on my team. This is supposed to be a country where people can have a second chance. Not a 3rd, 4th 5th or 10th chance, but a second chance.

[Seahawker 562]

I will honestly stop watching football if he gets reinstated. Switch to full time hockey

[Bleedin Purple]

Doesn't matter if it was murder or not, the NFL needs to have regulations and standards. They are going to let an animal killer from jail back into the league, think of all the young kids who look up to these players and buy their jerseys. what would they think?

Say you did something horrible aside from your daily job, you would never get re-hired, so I dont think his situation is any different.

He has a second chance, and thats getting a fresh start out of jail, maybe he can get a real job and earn some respect.

[Full Cougar]

Originally Posted by drfunk1986

Shesssh, I can understand where you guys are coming from but what ever happened to forgiveness. What if he truely means what he says that he is sorry and apologizes? Wouldn't you guys like to be forgiven to? It's sucks that we live in a world that where a guy like this can't be forgiven. Where a man who yes killed dogs and I do not agree what he did was right but is treated worse than an actual murderor. Some people say this was also murder but if you clearly look at the definition of "murder" what he did was not. I'm not condoning it but some people can and do change.

definition: Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification. All jurisdictions, ancient and modern, consider it a most serious crime and therefore impose severe penalty on its commission.

What he did was wrong, but If he truely has changed I would not mind him on my team. This is supposed to be a country where people can have a second chance. Not a 3rd, 4th 5th or 10th chance, but a second chance.

OK, let me start by saying that I'm not sure if he is truly sorry. I heard some people in the south and other places, think of dog fighting as a sport. So maybe he still thinks that it is no big deal. Also, maybe if he turned himself in, I might MIGHT consider thinking about possibly in a few years forgiving him. However he was caught. He said he made a mistake and was sorry or something like that.

I think it was Jim Rome who once said something along these lines, a mistake is forgetting to feed your dog, making them fight eachother is sick.

Also, what does it have to do with murder. Are you saying he is being treated like one? Or sentenced likeone? If he did what he did to dogs, to actual humans, this whole thing could be much bigger, and he might be in jail for life, so it doesn't really matter what the defenition of a murder is. He fought dogs, which is against the law.

[LSC9901]

I think you are dancing around the term "Murder". Lets just say that he "took life." The animals had no choice in the matter. I may regret making the next statement but I'll do it anyway and then ban myself later. The justice system, IN MY OPINION, isn't tough enough on criminals. With that thought in mind I see to many criminals getting less than an adequate sentence. The make plea agreements, they seek parole, retrial and so on. I'll stop there as it will really get into to many opinions on my behalf but what I will say is that the time that Vick got fits into the criminal justice system. Again ... to many others get off with far less of a sentence than is deserved.

Now tell me how wrong I am. I got broad shoulders. I also have minimal faith in the judicial system.

[Full Cougar]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I think you are dancing around the term "Murder". Lets just say that he "took life." The animals had no choice in the matter. I may regret making the next statement but I'll do it anyway and then ban myself later. The justice system, IN MY OPINION, isn't tough enough on criminals. With that thought in mind I see to many criminals getting less than an adequate sentence. The make plea agreements, they seek parole, retrial and so on. I'll stop there as it will really get into to many opinions on my behalf but what I will say is that the time that Vick got fits into the criminal justice system. Again ... to many others get off with far less of a sentence than is deserved.

Now tell me how wrong I am. I got broad shoulders. I also have minimal faith in the judicial system.

Wait, so are you saying Michael Vick got the right punishment? Or that it should have been bigger?

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Full Cougar

Wait, so are you saying Michael Vick got the right punishment? Or that it should have been bigger?

I think he is saying Vick got the right punishment.
But this topic kind of got off track. The original question as stated by you Cougar wasnt about whether or not he had the right punishment, or the legal definition of murder and whether or not it applies to this case.
You asked whether or not he should get another chance and why or why not and what factors would influence that opinion.
We had many discussions on this issue already and some of them got really out of hand. That isnt going to happen here.
The guy committed a heinous crime (its against the law so its a crime and it was pretty bloody, hence heinous) Law says he can get out next year. Does he deserve another chance. I doubt whether he is sorry unless staying clean for awhile helps his thinking. But regardless, he deserves a second chance. Do I want him on the Cowboys? Hell, no, not under any circumstances. Will someone give a chance? Sure. Some team desperate enough and one who believes they can control him.
Some teams who may be desperate wont want the headache from Peta and other groups that will accompany it. Players dont have much choice. And I have found they generally give a chance to everyone. Maybe because they cant be sure they wont be the next to cross the line.

[Robertdjr]

I've been a Falcon's fan since the first game they ever played as a professional football team. I went to their first home game (preseason) with my dad. We also went to their first regular season home game. I was on the sidelines with the team at all their home games for 3 years as a paramedic working for Metro Ambulance in the 90's. So needless to say I've stuck with them through thick and thin and still do.

When they signed Michael Vick, I screamed at the top of my lungs it was a mistake. He was not a team player, and he was not a complete quarterback. When he got in trouble and sent to prison, I said good riddance. And this year shows they are a better team without him! If the Falcons even consider bringing him back, it will truly test my loyalty like nothing else has for the last 42 years. And not just because of what he did, although that weighs into it, but because of the kind of quarterback he is. If he's truly rehabilitated and sorry for what he did, that's fine. But let some other team take him and deal with him.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Full Cougar

Wait, so are you saying Michael Vick got the right punishment? Or that it should have been bigger?

Let me try to explain a bit more. I honestly do not know what the accepted punishment is for the crime he committed. Assuming that 23 months is the suggested time for that crime then my opinion is that under no circumstances should anyone "plea" for less or be offered less. Below are Federal guidelines for 1st degree murder. Obviously this doesn't apply in this case but it reaffirms, to me anyway, that even federal guidelines are not always met.

1. Applicability of Guideline.—This guideline applies in cases of premeditated killing. This guideline also applies when death results from the commission of certain felonies. For example, this guideline may be applied as a result of a cross reference (e.g., a kidnapping in which death occurs), or in cases in which the offense level of a guideline is calculated using the underlying crime (e.g., murder in aid of racketeering).
2. Imposition of Life Sentence.—

(A) Offenses Involving Premeditated Killing.—In the case of premeditated killing, life imprisonment is the appropriate sentence if a sentence of death is not imposed. A downward departure would not be appropriate in such a case. A downward departure from a mandatory statutory term of life imprisonment is permissible only in cases in which the government files a motion for a downward departure for the defendant’s substantial assistance, as provided in 18 U.S.C. § 3553(e).
(B) Felony Murder.—If the defendant did not cause the death intentionally or knowingly, a downward departure may be warranted. For example, a downward departure may be warranted if in robbing a bank, the defendant merely passed a note to the teller, as a result of which the teller had a heart attack and died. The extent of the departure should be based upon the defendant’s state of mind (e.g., recklessness or negligence), the degree of risk inherent in the conduct, and the nature of the underlying offense conduct. However, departure below the minimum guideline sentence provided for second degree murder in §2A1.2 (Second Degree Murder) is not likely to be appropriate. Also, because death obviously is an aggravating factor, it necessarily would be inappropriate to impose a sentence at a level below that which the guideline for the underlying offense requires in the absence of death.



Basically I feel that a minimum sentence should NEVER be lessened. If 23 months was the minimum for Vick then yes it was enough. If there is a variable involved I do not feel that the prosecution should even consider anything less than maximum.


Animals in the wild may kill one another but this case was just inhumane on the part of Vick and his cohorts. How about an eye for an eye ????? To inhumane ?

[LSC9901]

Now back to the topic of the thread. If he serves the time and has paid his debt to society according to the laws and a team wants to hire him then fine. I believe we all know that, as already stated, PETA will be following him the rest of his professional life. If he and team ownership can deal with it, then go for it.

Sorry for going on the legal, opinionated, rant.

[Full Cougar]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

How about an eye for an eye ????? To inhumane ?

He does not have enough eyes for that with all the dogs he killed.

[drfunk1986]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Now back to the topic of the thread. If he serves the time and has paid his debt to society according to the laws and a team wants to hire him then fine. I believe we all know that, as already stated, PETA will be following him the rest of his professional life. If he and team ownership can deal with it, then go for it.

Sorry for going on the legal, opinionated, rant.

PETA should be followed by PAEOTP (People Against Eating Of Tofu and Plants) because you know, Tofu and plants feel pain too.