[FALCONSKUTIEE]

I KNOW ALL OF YOU ARE EXCITED THAT VICK GOT INDICTED!
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT INNOCENCE TO PROVEN GUILTY, JUST
LIKE THE DUKE LARCROSS PLAYER! WHAT ABOUT KILLING INNOCENCE DEERS BEING KILLED EVERYDAY, DO YOU THINK WE CAN TAKE A HUNTER TO COURT FOR KILLING A INNOCENCE DEER! THIS IS CRAZY I HOPE THAT EVERYTHING TURNS OUT FOR THE GOOD FOR VICK! IF NOT THE FALCONS WILL SUCK NOW AND FOR EVER AND EVEN BEFORE HE CAME TO THE FALCONS! ITS TRULY GOING TO SEPERATE FALCONS HERE IN ATLANTA!

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by FALCONSKUTIEE

I KNOW ALL OF YOU ARE EXCITED THAT VICK GOT INDICTED!
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT INNOCENCE TO PROVEN GUILTY, JUST
LIKE THE DUKE LARCROSS PLAYER! WHAT ABOUT KILLING INNOCENCE DEERS BEING KILLED EVERYDAY, DO YOU THINK WE CAN TAKE A HUNTER TO COURT FOR KILLING A INNOCENCE DEER! THIS IS CRAZY I HOPE THAT EVERYTHING TURNS OUT FOR THE GOOD FOR VICK! IF NOT THE FALCONS WILL SUCK NOW AND FOR EVER AND EVEN BEFORE HE CAME TO THE FALCONS! ITS TRULY GOING TO SEPERATE FALCONS HERE IN ATLANTA!

Not sure the same statement applies to "The Court of Public Opinion"...but we will see...

[ThePundit]

I heard that Vick was involved in hanging dogs, beating them to death, spraying injured ones with water...if that ends up to be true, he should be released from the Falcons and no team should sign him.

[bears9]

i was listening to Mike & Mike and one MIke made a great point this could be like the Don Imus thing sponser will start to leave Vick then the fact Vick is over half the Falcons revinew there meaning losing money which could lead to a contract buyout

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by FALCONSKUTIEE

I KNOW ALL OF YOU ARE EXCITED THAT VICK GOT INDICTED!
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT INNOCENCE TO PROVEN GUILTY, JUST
LIKE THE DUKE LARCROSS PLAYER!

this is nothing at all like the Duke case ..... that girl apparently made a false accusation, and that was what the entire case was built on

as for hunting deer, its legal ...... do you have any argument here that actually supports your stance ?

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by simple simon

this is nothing at all like the Duke case ..... that girl apparently made a false accusation, and that was what the entire case was built on

as for hunting deer, its legal ...... do you have any argument here that actually supports your stance ?

Easy my anit-Vick friend...the girl is entitled to her opinion on the matter and since a jury has not rendered a verdict...the two are the similiar...people jumped the gun on the Duke case...nothing more, nothing less...and we are jumping the gun on Vick...

now that the evidence might be stronger for a conviction here is another case entirely...

[FALCONSKUTIEE]

yep WERE YOU AT THE FIGHTS, HOUSE ETC! IF NOT EVERYTHING
IS HERE SAY AND INNOCENCE UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by FALCONSKUTIEE

yep WERE YOU AT THE FIGHTS, HOUSE ETC! IF NOT EVERYTHING
IS HERE SAY AND INNOCENCE UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

your absolutely right, none of us were there, but the ones who came foward and who were interviewed were, theyve said all along that vick was guilty, theyve shined the light on the evidence and have given the fbi places,names etc..and killing deer and killing dogs is two seperate things, you dont let deer in your house and let them play with your kids, dogs and cats even though I hate cats, are part of your family when you decide to own one,yes vick is innocent until proven guilty but in the same token he shouldnt be able play until its resolved, and whats gonna happen you say, this case will be long and drawn out and the NFL will let him play this season,why cause vicks a star, goodell is playing sides now, if pac cant play neither should vick, lets not forget the dog fighting isnt the only instance where vick hasnt been a priest this off season..

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

your absolutely right, none of us were there, but the ones who came foward and who were interviewed were, theyve said all along that vick was guilty, theyve shined the light on the evidence and have given the fbi places,names etc..and killing deer and killing dogs is two seperate things, you dont let deer in your house and let them play with your kids, dogs and cats even though I hate cats, are part of your family when you decide to own one,yes vick is innocent until proven guilty but in the same token he shouldnt be able play until its resolved, and whats gonna happen you say, this case will be long and drawn out and the NFL will let him play this season,why cause vicks a star, goodell is playing sides now, if pac cant play neither should vick, lets not forget the dog fighting isnt the only instance where vick hasnt been a priest this off season..

you guys are really losing me on the whole "Deer, Dog Cat" things...the only thinking seperating the killings here is that we as a society set an arbitrary law...nothing else...it's a "relative moral" at best that says which animal should be or not be killed for sport...nothing else...

...and Vincesanity, you are making a false assumption that all people define "Family" to include pets...I do not see the relevance of that to this case...

The whole argument on morality is irrevelant...we don't all share a common moral ground...it is basically an issue of law...

For example, some societies eat dogs...so are they immoral for it? Why? Because we say it is? Some societies fight roosters...etc...are they any worse than we as people?

Some people don't shoot deers...are they any better or worse?...big can of worms...

The only real issue then is the law...did we make a law and was it broken?...

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

you guys are really losing me on the whole "Deer, Dog Cat" things...the only thinking seperating the killings here is that we as a society set an arbitrary law...nothing else...it's a "relative moral" at best that says which animal should be or not be killed for sport...nothing else...

...and Vincesanity, you are making a false assumption that all people define "Family" to include pets...I do not see the relevance of that to this case...

The whole argument on morality is irrevelant...we don't all share a common moral ground...it is basically an issue of law...

For example, some societies eat dogs...so are they immoral for it? Why? Because we say it is? Some societies fight roosters...etc...are they any worse than we as people?

Some people don't shoot deers...are they any better or worse?...big can of worms...

The only real issue then is the law...did we make a law and was it broken?...

so your saying that killing a dog or multiple dogs is ok if it wasnt a law? yes some people dont care to kill deer period, and thats their perogative, but remember dog is mans best friend not a deer or a anaconda snake..

[FALCONSKUTIEE]

you look up the history of dog fights, it was a past time sport for the romans, just like it pass time when people kill innocences deers! same thing
i dont think a mans career should be mess up like this for a dog fight now!
i bet none of you were concern about dogs fight until now,! i own a apbt he is great. but some are not so just think as it one less dangers pit bull out there! but then some say oh what poor doggies give me a break! people hate pit bulls, want them band in some states! make up ur mind people! boils down to fame, blk qb, money people get paid for lying! fbi is a dirty as they come now adays

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by FALCONSKUTIEE

you look up the history of dog fights, it was a past time sport for the romans, just like it pass time when people kill innocences deers! same thing
i dont think a mans career should be mess up like this for a dog fight now!
i bet none of you were concern about dogs fight until now,! i own a apbt he is great. but some are not so just think as it one less dangers pit bull out there! but then some say oh what poor doggies give me a break! people hate pit bulls, want them band in some states! make up ur mind people! boils down to fame, blk qb, money people get paid for lying! fbi is a dirty as they come now adays

now your just being silly,some romans also practiced incest, so incest is alright too, right? gimme a break skutee, at first you you said he was innocent, now your saying "hey its dead dogs who cares?" i mean did you see the evidence they found, dog rape stands, needles,drugs, guns, they found 35+ dead dog remains buried in the ground, and 50+ malnourished and abused, dog fighting isnt o.k,abusing dogs isnt ok, it isnt accepted in america, and its against the law,period. and this isnt a racial issue so you cant play the race card here, his fame is what it is, it sucks but that comes with the money and women, and the only one who is dirty and lying here is vick...he will suffer the consequences soon enough..

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

so your saying that killing a dog or multiple dogs is ok if it wasnt a law? yes some people dont care to kill deer period, and thats their perogative, but remember dog is mans best friend not a deer or a anaconda snake..

Yes, I am saying that our society (for better or worse) has decided what is okay to kill...period...show me were there is a universally accepted moral on this?...

The comment "dog is man's best friend" is subjective at best...and irrelevant...different strokes for different folks...some may say that their pet boa is their best friend and not a dog...etc...

A dog, deer or snake...all animals...what is the difference really?...nothing...for example pigs are highly intelligent animals yet we eat them...what is the difference between a pig and a dog?...nothing...

What if someone was fighting King Cobra's in a snake pit?...is that any different...any better or worse?...nope...

It's only the laws of society that governs these things...get a license, kill a deer...have a farm, slaughter a pig...be a rich, and horribly dumb NFL player, fight a dog....what's the difference?...man made laws...that's all...

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Yes, I am saying that our society (for better or worse) has decided what is okay to kill...period...show me were there is a universally accepted moral on this?...

The comment "dog is man's best friend" is subjective at best...and irrelevant...different strokes for different folks...some may say that their pet boa is their best friend and not a dog...etc...

A dog, deer or snake...all animals...what is the difference really?...nothing...for example pigs are highly intelligent animals yet we eat them...what is the difference between a pig and a dog?...nothing...

What if someone was fighting King Cobra's in a snake pit?...is that any different...any better or worse?...nope...

It's only the laws of society that governs these things...get a license, kill a deer...have a farm, slaughter a pig...be a rich, and horribly dumb NFL player, fight a dog....what's the difference?...man made laws...that's all...

goth, many people have their dogs sleep with them, usually they lay at their feet, most humans trust their dogs with their children, they are part of their family, i dont know of many cases where pigs sleep with people, unless your a creepy redneck farmer, but I agree any animal can be a "friend"

but with that logic, you could kill, abuse, rape other humans and thats ok, because everyone has different morals? where do you draw the line? sorry not following you on this, what vick did was wrong and you know what he did was wrong..but I could be wrong, maybe getting in trouble with the law is the only thing stopping you from having a dog fighting operation of your own..

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

goth, many people have their dogs sleep with them, usually they lay at their feet, most humans trust their dogs with their children, they are part of their family, i dont know of many cases where pigs sleep with people, unless your a creepy redneck farmer, but I agree any animal can be a "friend"

but with that logic, you could kill, abuse, rape other humans and thats ok, because everyone has different morals? where do you draw the line? sorry not following you on this, what vick did was wrong and you know what he did was wrong..but I could be wrong, maybe getting in trouble with the law is the only thing stopping you from having a dog fighting operation of your own..

My friend, you have to separate feelings from the issue at hand...

"Our morals” or those of this country where basically founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs...

Wisely the founding fathers decided not to subscribe to any one religion and decided to separate state and church...but mostly as to not favor any one view...

Our morals then became laws based on commonality. For example "murder" is basically accepted under most views as being wrong, so we formed a law around that common moral... (Read up on Thomas Jefferson, etc with regards to what common morals were accepted at the start of it all)

...With views on which there is currently a wide spectrum of believes (like abortion and issues of sexual orientation etc) the morals are not one of commonality (currently) and the laws varied widely...as do people's views...

In the case of dogs being of a higher nature than a pig or deer with regards to this thread, it is only your opinion that is offered, nothing more...and not a commonality of a moral (go talk to PETA about animals and have them agree with a Hunter in rural Georgia on what the moral here is)...

Personally, I am not an animal person, but by the same token I do not hurt any animals...I would not do what Vick is accused of doing, neither would I have a dog sleep at my feet for that matter...

My personal feelings aside, I do not see how it is okay to kill one animal in a violent way and not another...granted population control plays a role in the killing of deers etc...But I have seen pigs get killed by having a long knife shoved up their snout (I had a pig farmer uncle)...how is that any better or worse than a dog fight honestly?...and when we break a horse's leg by racing him too hard for sport, is it any more humane to kill him? …Why?...we drove him to it for sport didn't we?

Thus there is no universal moral that governs all of what we do with animals...at best we rely on laws that dictate a bit of common sense...

Now, my only point was, you guys are picking on someone who brought up "deer hunting as sport" and bashing her for saying "it's the same in a way"...and in a way she is right...the biggest difference between the two is that a state license one and bans the other...if not, show me the universally accepted moral that exalts one while condemning the other...